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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 13:08:22 GMT
I would love to know the figures on how many exile's are people who were born in Torbay, or grew up here as a child. I do now that some just somehow adopted the club, but I bet most just came form here in the first place. The “exile” issue is interesting because – amongst this talk of people who move to South Devon – we also need to remember it’s also an area which traditionally “exports” people. Mind you, there’s nothing unique or unusual in this because it happens throughout the country and all over the world. And, if you do your family history, you may well discover it’s not a new phenomenon and has been happening on a larger scale than we may have imagined for far longer a time. It’s certainly worth remembering that – although it might not have been appreciated immediately - the coming of the railway to Torquay in 1848 soon offered people the opportunity of arriving or departing for good. Now there was a train to catch – rather than a stage coach – you might more easily head off to a booming industrial town in place of work. Equally, the chance to live off the riches of industrialisation by the seaside – or to recuperate there a while – presented itself to the wealthy of every town in the country. And, as the wealthy arrived, people left the countryside to work in the villas, hotels and spas of the new resorts. We had become mobile. And so it continues. Young people may leave Torbay and South Devon because of a lack of opportunities – real or perceived – but, over the years, we’ve left for other reasons as well. Perhaps it was a curiosity to live somewhere else, maybe it was to go away to college, perhaps there wasn’t something right (in our own estimation) about “home” and the place where we grew up. This is perfectly normal just as the way some of us soon come back, others take a while longer and some never return (not even, in some cases, in a box!). And, as we know already, there are plenty of people on this site with tales to tell. Because Torbay and South Devon is relatively isolated from the main centres of population – not as far as Cornwall nor Cumbria but still at least a hundred miles from anywhere even as large as Bristol – some of us move a fair old distance. In football terms, this means visits to Plainmoor can be as far – or further - than the longest of away trips. Consequently, you have people who frequently watch the club away but very rarely at home. I’ve been in this category before and – age and inertia notwithstanding – may one day find myself in this group again. And, yes, it’s a bloody great hobby which – as an aside - helps maintain the links with South Devon that may otherwise have subsided a long time ago. I believe the presence of “exiles” – alongside, of course, the hardy, heroic souls who travel to away games from South Devon on a regular basis – has enriched our away support over the years. Long may it continue. In that sense I guess we’ve got a cracking away community which is similar to other far-flung clubs such as Argyle, Exeter, Darlington, Hartlepool, Carlisle, etc. Indeed, a sociologist may talk about the continuing bond between the community and its diaspora…. I’ll go into my own personal history – and my varying senses of identity – on another occasion. But, for now, I’ll just say it was only chance – me getting a particular job rather than somebody else – that caused me to move back to the South West in my early thirties. It was one job application amongst many and – if I’d not been successful – I may still be living in Preston, Blackburn or wherever. And, in that event with no family in South Devon since 1992, I would have relied upon my interest in Torquay United to maintain any link with the old place. I’ve a sneaky feeling that may be true for others as well. So, yes, Dave, I think you’re right in that most “exiles” on this site probably grew up pretty close to Plainmoor. But, when we talked about this before, we found a few people who only lived in the area for a while – before moving again - but grew attached to the club. I dare say you’ll also find the odd person at an away game who’ll tell you they holidayed in Torquay as a kid, went to a game at Plainmoor and have followed us ever since (even if it means just one or two “local” games each season). Then there’s the people who have an interest in Torquay United for quirky, unfathomable ways of their own: the Saturday evening kick offs, because we’re crap, they liked Fawlty Towers, etc, etc. It’s almost that they’ve “selected” Torquay United in a similar way to how people all over the place support Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal, etc. Any stories of this type to tell, I wonder? More thoughts as the thread continues… |
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merse
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Post by merse on Jul 23, 2009 14:52:07 GMT
And, as the wealthy arrived, people left the countryside to work in the villas, hotels and spas of the new resorts. We had become mobile.  Not in Kingskerswell they haven't! ;D Seriously though, an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever will. Likewise, a pro-active and positive "incomer" will far more likely get off his arse and DO something to help OUR club than indolent "do nothings" will.............it is out of the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes, not their "breeding" . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 15:45:01 GMT
Seriously though, an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever will. Likewise, a pro-active and positive "incomer" will far more likely get off his arse and DO something to help OUR club than indolent "do nothings" will.............it is out of the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes, not their "breeding" . You see this at the small Peninsula League clubs as well - a Danish woman on the committee at Holsworthy, would you believe? I'd estimate that at places such as Porthleven, Tavistock and Holsworthy a good half of the spectators are probably people relatively new to the area with a lifelong interest in the game. Similarly, wherever I've lived, I've taken an interest in the local club (but not so much in my current location!). |
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Post by longeatongull on Jul 23, 2009 19:28:35 GMT
And, as the wealthy arrived, people left the countryside to work in the villas, hotels and spas of the new resorts. We had become mobile. Not in Kingskerswell they haven't! ;D Seriously though, an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever will. Likewise, a pro-active and positive "incomer" will far more likely get off his arse and DO something to help OUR club than indolent "do nothings" will.............it is out of the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes, not their "breeding" . This is a great thread and a few fantastic points have been made. I had a dozen happy years in Paignton and cannot believe how many friends I still have in the Bay who dont go EVER anymore to Plainmoor. Even on my visits I cannot get them to watch. I am from the old Bill Shankly "brigade" ---football,life and death etc etc===but afraid the locals really dont have same passion generally. Before Dave starts calling me a "visitor" or whatever I must also add I have the utmost admiration for the regulars and also the "home based" away support. After every game they board that coach knowing full well they have a long journey home not arriving home to the wee small hours....I applaud you all!! In conclusion born,bred or newbie lets keep UNITED!!! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 24, 2009 0:07:07 GMT
Not in Kingskerswell they haven't! ;D Seriously though, an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever will. Likewise, a pro-active and positive "incomer" will far more likely get off his arse and DO something to help OUR club than indolent "do nothings" will.............it is out of the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes, not their "breeding" . I thought I had already stated that my choice of the word pure, was incorrect and a poor choice. It sure did not mean that Devon people should only breed with Devon people, to keep the locals pure.  It was meant that those who were born here and could be called true locals by birthright. as I said those who move here will just say they live here and always tell you they came from so and so. While you may say your a proud Londoner, you can be sure there are many who's family's have lived in London for generations, may not see you as a Londoner. At least your are making some progress  as it really is not about any breeding and as you say its the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes. I don't care where anyone lives, there will be people who live around you who will be positive and be active in something or another and there will be people who decide to just live their life's and do not get involved with much. It will always be a case that some will like football and some will not, the problem is we all look at things through our own eyes, we love football and can't understand why not everyone else does. My own son-in-law has never been to a game, he simply finds nothing he likes about football and it has no interest to him one little bit. I must admit I thought he must be a boring person and as he was about to marry my daughter, I even wondered what sort of man he was, I mean a man who does not football. Merse you say
an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever willWhat a daft statement really, it goes without saying that anyone, be they local, or someone who has moved into the Bay and has an interest in football, is always going to possibly become a fan and supporter of TUFC, more than someone who does not like football. I think you will find that the percentage of people who move to Torbay and become fans of the club, is very low indeed and there are many reasons why that is the case. One will be they don't like football, two will be they supported a big club and lower league football has nothing to offer them, as they feel its just small time football. There is a third reason and only someone who lives here and talks with their fellow LOCALS can really talk about with any authority. That reason is that they did go to a game at Plainmoor and watched a very poor game, we all know in seasons gone by, we have had some games that even the true die hards, had them asking themselves just why they went. You see I do go on about PURE football, at the end of the day the game played in the way it was at Plainmoor tonight( just looked at the clock, so its last night now ) will have people leaving for home after the game and wanting to go again to the next home match. Yes fans like us have put up with some real rubbish games, but then TUFC is in our blood and we don't need to be won over, we have already been caught and for us there is no escape. That is not the case for those just going to see what football is like at Plainmoor. We all know and have got disappointed when we have got that bigger gate and then watched a TUFC team, play with no heart and no passion, I know that has not been the case for a while, but when it does happen, you just know that those extra fans won't be returning in a hurry. As I said I think most exiles were born here or grew up here, there will as Barton said a small number who follow TUFC for all manner of reasons. The TUFC fans who have left the Bay, have done so to get a better job,or just wanted to live in a city, or live a different lifestyle to the one they had, or were just people who like to move around. There are plenty like me, who will never move very far from where they were born, I now live only six miles from my birthplace, have never lived any further away than that and never will, this is also the place I will die and be buried. The thing is I don't spend my life moaning about all the things that are wrong where I live, yes I have been very vocal on things like the balloon, Rockwalk and the NCP crew, but on the whole I look at all the things that are good in Torbay, as its not bad you know. If I ever were to move to a new town, I don't think i would support the football club there, I'm a TUFC fan and the only football I might watch in my new town, would be local football played on the parks. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Jul 24, 2009 2:52:16 GMT
Not in Kingskerswell they haven't! ;D Seriously though, an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) I thought I had already stated that my choice of the word pure, was incorrect and a poor choice. It sure did not mean that Devon people should only breed with Devon people, to keep the locals pure. It was meant that those who were born here and could be called true locals by birthright. .......................as I said those who move here will just say they live here and always tell you they came from so and so. While you may say your a proud Londoner, you can be sure there are many who's family's have lived in London for generations, may not see you as a Londoner. 2- Merse you say
an "incomer" who has an interest in football is far more likely to be a potential supporter of the club than a "purebred" (as someone strangely calls them) with little or no interest in the game ever willWhat a daft statement really, it goes without saying that anyone, be they local, or someone who has moved into the Bay and has an interest in football, is always going to possibly become a fan and supporter of TUFC, more than someone who does not like football. 3- If I ever were to move to a new town, I don't think i would support the football club there, I'm a TUFC fan and the only football I might watch in my new town, would be local football played on the parks. 1- That WAS a very poor (and somewhat distasteful) phrase you used Dave which smacked of the barmy theories of Arthur de Gobineau, racial theories and the dreaded "Untermensch" ~ I was waiting for further rantings on compulsory sterilisation, genetic deficiencies and compulsory euthanasia as the "cure all" programme to solve all Torbay's ills from Dr "Feelgood" Roach. We could always find you a job at the Coolmore Stud or stand you at the Penn Inn Roundabout directing the "impure" arrivals into Milber Woods from where they would mysteriously disappear and fail to reach the Promised Land of Barton and The Prince of Orange I always say I'm a proud Londoner, and a typical one as I wasn't born here! I think the difference between London and South Devon is that in London one is considered a "Londoner" purely because one lives here whereas in South Devon one seems to need to live there for thirty years before being considered a Devonian.................if ever at all! In all honesty, I'm thinking about ALL our neighbours around the courtyard where I live and can only identify one of the adults who is London born and she is married to an Algerian; another vey nice man who lives with a Tinidadian born woman and one other noisy little "Hackney Gal" who seems to spend more time in our home than her own (she's even given my missus a Cockney-French accent now!) and she tells me her parents came from Jamaica. I am talking around two dozen households here including a few old dears who arrived from Malta in 1946 and STILL can't speak English..................they're the ones who decorate their balconies with copious amounts of lovely potted red geraniums, purple Lobelia and wonderful greenery, sit out all day chatting and keeping an eye on all the London born kids who play safely below. Nice people with a lovely old fashioned community spirit and a real asset to the neighbourhood. 2- Not in my opinion is it a "daft statement" ~ more like stating the bleedin' obvious! 3- Whilst I don't support any London sides and will always maintain my sole support for Torquay United, I DO get off my arse and watch local football regularly and occasionally (and it's occasional through purely financial reasons) go to watch some of the fully professional London clubs which is supporting them through the turnstile. Therefore I am the archetypal "incomer" with an interest in football. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 13:20:06 GMT
Well, I’m pleased to report Dave wasn’t manning a Purity Checkpoint on the Popular Side last night. The thought also of him stood by a barrier at Penn Inn – treating all prospective “incomers” to a few minutes of good old Deb’n conversation and chit chat – prompts an image in my mind of a queue heading back to Bristol in one direction and Salisbury Plain in the other. The buggers would probably give up anyway!
Mind you, had the checkpoint been in operation last night – and those yellow-hatched lines do suggest some sort of security zone or checkpoint – I’m not sure how I would have scored on the DevonPurityMeter (available exclusively from Toolfix).
Here’s my case for assessment: born just inside Devon to natural parents from a neighbouring county but adopted at the age of just a few weeks by Londoners living within the county boundaries. An accident indeed – given I believe my natural mother was shipped fifty miles solely to give birth – of both birth and adoption.
And, to be honest, it’s left me with an odd sense of identity. In view of me being somehow crated to Torquay at a very young age, I do consider myself a Torquinian of the mind (at least) as the old place is very much my "home town". As for existing as a Torquinian of the present well – assuming he is happy to be so labelled and rubber-stamped on the forehead – I guess Aussie probably has a stronger case than me.
As for the Devonian bit, the fact is I was born in Devon, grew up in the county and currently – for the first time in nearly thirty years – actually live there. I’m into Devon’s history, landscape, railways and football (although I would show similar interests anywhere) and would say I know - and love - most corners of the place pretty well. But, as to laying a personal claim or a stake in the county’s customs, folklore or dialect, I’m aware this isn’t my heritage and it would be rather bogus of me to follow this pathway.
All of which might make me a not wholly untypical product of that strange, far flung land known as the Seaside England. Looking back, our Torquay cul-de-sac of the 1960s seemed to represent a cross-section of lower-middle class Britain: my London parents and neighbours from Birmingham, Newcastle, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Northamptonshire and South Wales together with Devonians of several generations standing. And I’m not sure it was too different at secondary school either.
And, I guess, that’s been the picture since before any of the users of this site were born. Seaside towns – many of which really started to grow no more 150 years ago – usually took people from nearby and far afield alike just like those industrial boom towns (such as Barrow and Middlesbrough) which grew from virtually nothing overnight.
In Torquay’s case, there was massive growth by the First World War but, even between the wars, the place grew in size by a third from 39,000 to 52,000 (whilst Newton Abbot only grew by 7%). This suggests Torquay reached around 80% of its current size by 1939. Those people must have come from somewhere.
Paignton is a rather different matter because it has doubled in population since 1939 to around 50,000 now. But you only have to walk around parts of the town to appreciate the extent of the 1930s housing – much of which has an air of affluence – which contributed to a 75% population increase between the wars. Again, the dye was cast, but – as we know – the descendents of those “incomers” of the inter-war years could now be 3rd or 4th generation Devonians.
You can argue one effect of this type of urban growth – together with elementary geography which places seaside resorts on the fringe anyway - is that resort towns tend to have a more fragile relationship with the surrounding countryside and host county. This may add to my stronger feelings towards being a Torquinian than a Devonian and partly-explain the hinterland’s relative indifference towards Torbay and Torquay United (and hasn’t it slowly become a wealthier, better-connected more arts-orientated countryside anyway?). In short, it all adds to my belief that Torbay is as much part of a Seaside England as it is Devon.
Consequently, I feel the place has more in common with Southport or Scarborough or Hastings than it does Newton Abbot or Barnstaple. Maybe aspects of the “mentality” may – or may not – overlap but the socio-economic data would match up between most seaside resorts (together, I hasten to add, with a prevailing Conservative political outlook).
Which begs the concluding question – do seaside football clubs in general struggle for support? Given the size (and relative geographical accessibility) of Blackpool, Bournemouth, Brighton and Southend, have those clubs underachieved? Is Torquay United in a pool with Southport, Morecambe and Scarborough – and hence doing relatively well after all? And why hasn’t football exactly flourished in Weston, Worthing, Eastbourne, Bognor, Yarmouth, Margate, Ramsgate, Hastings? On that basis, even Weymouth is a relative success story….
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 24, 2009 22:09:57 GMT
I can assure you Merse, there is nothing distasteful about me, or any views I hold, it is more a case of me not getting down what I really mean and you reading more into what I post. On the subject of pure bred, it may be the case my children have more of a claim to be being a Londoner, well at least having genes from London people, than you do You see my first wife was born in Crawley, as her mother and father moved there from London, as I understand its a sort of overspill town for London. My wifes grandfather and at least three generations maybe more, were all true born Londoners. The grandfather later moved to Newton Abbot to be closer to his daughter in his old age, but I had the pleasure to know him for many years before he passed away. Always in his black trousers, white shirt and tie not forgetting his braces he wore to keep the trousers up ,the same as he wore when he was a manager of a co-op store( I believe thats who he worked for). Big hands and played the piano by ear, he could not read a single note written down, a true gentleman from the old school and he was the very best member of that family. I hate Bedford Dormobiles, its what my ex wifes family set off in from Crawley, only it broke down In Torquay and here they settled, why could it not have broken down in Exeter, would have saved me half a life of heartache and misery ;D  |
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merse
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Post by merse on Jul 25, 2009 6:23:59 GMT
I can assure you Merse, there is nothing distasteful about me, or any views I hold, it is more a case of me not getting down what I really mean and you reading more into what I post. On the subject of pure bred, it may be the case my children have more of a claim to be being a Londoner, well at least having genes from London people, than you do I don't consider you, nor did I claim you were; distasteful. What I said was you used a poor and somewhat distasteful phrase and I mentioned de Gobineau as an example of distasteful pontificating on breeding, genes and so called "pureness"....................pontificating that was eagerly seized upon to justify some pretty horrific and genocidal acts by evil people who caused the biggest loss of life, misery and suffering ever seen on this planet. Personally I don't see the need to differentiate between those born in an area and those not. It really matters not a jot where people were born, if they are going to be an excellent contributor to society or choose to contribute nothing at all is nothing to do with where they were born; rather a result of their own personal characteristic and (maybe) standards. You certainly don't need to be born in London to be a Londoner, only to be born in London to be "London born" ~ if that makes sense. Mother Theresa would be held up by many as the perfect example when trying to find a good and loving person to underwrite the image of Calcutta, yet she's not "from there" by birth; she was born in Albania..................a nation who's refugees are often held in contempt by those wishing to perpetuate the myth of pureness of breed in this day and age for their own political purposes. It matters not where people are from, where they were born or what ethnicity they are. What matters is their attitude to contribution to society, their willingness to integrate and their enthusiasm to become a part of the society to which they have become a part of. So much of that will depend to a certain extent on the attitude of those incumbent in the town or country to which they arrive, and in my opinion; differentiating between those born here and those born there is not helpful or conducive to peace, progress or harmony. So what I'm saying Dave is "you come and live next to me, and be one of us. Pray in your church, eat your own preferred food and talk in your native tongue amongst your own family if you wish. But when we meet and greet one another, let's try to converse in both our tongues; never be afraid to ask for help or shy to offer assistance if you think I need it. If we're going to do that then we'll both be of help to one another"...................and that's not a bad way to get along is it? It's surely better than putting people into little pockets and failing to integrate, because failure to integrate means a failure of welcome and a loss of potential enrichment to society. I know it leads to hilarity like seeing a Morris Dancer in a turban, but laughter is better than suspicion any day and I'm sure you'll agree that with me. By the way, the last time I tried to play the piano by ear the ruddy lid fell on my head! ;D |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 25, 2009 11:08:51 GMT
Merse I will probably now make myself look uneducated, but when you posted de Gobineau I had never heard of it before or had a clue what it meant.
In your last post you have explained a bit about it, but I will once again state that what I meant and was in my head, was not what you read into it, but the wrong choice of words I used.
If it was the case that is what I believed, then being a Newton boy and knowing my family went back many generations as Newton people, I would have only wanted to a marry a girl from Newton,who's background was the same and not someone who moved here and who's family were Londoners.
You say
It's surely better than putting people into little pockets and failing to integrate
I have never seen any evidence that does happen here in the Southwest, it is only because you have been guilty of putting people from here in packets and labeling them and using words that are so often unfair and so far from the truth, that I challenge you as I do on here.
Such remarks as this one
reticent and reluctant area to show enthusiasm in great numbers for very much quite frankly.
People show enthusiasm in what interests them and that may not be TUFC and while you go on about accepting people for who they are and not where they come from, you need to stop being guilty of the very same thing you preached about in your last post.
I don't care in you live in a village in Devon or any other county in England, those moving in from the outside for what ever reasons, find it takes time to be accepted. It is often the case the outsider is guilty of not mixing in, or wants to start changing things in a village, that those who have lived there all their life's, don't want.
I have said before I'm not against change, if it brings about improvements, but I do believe if we move to any new place, we need to respect the way the people there choose to live and not try and force our ways onto them.
It is the fault of the way law and order has been allowed to deteriorate in this country, that has lead people these days being more suspicious and untrusting of those they do not know. Gone are the days when people left their doors unlocked on their homes and even their cars.
Gone are the days you can leave anything in your garden overnight, because these days you will wake up and find it has been stolen.
Yes merse you live and work with many different people from so many different backgrounds, people from all parts of the world and all colours and have learned firsthand that they are on the whole people who you can get along with and even enrich your own life.
As I said to Romfordkev on the phone last week, we who live in this part of the UK, do not have those experiences, so often and I will state not in my case, views of other races are formed only by what is heard on the news, this can result in one race or another having labels stuck on them, it could be ones like saying such a race are all terrorists, when that would be so far from the truth.
People who live here do not lock themselves in little pockets as you seem to suggest, they take on the whole people as they find them, for me I love to talk with someone who might be described as different, from a different race or background, because I do not get that chance that often living here, unlike you who lives in a city where such a person might well be your next door neighbour.
Just like fashion always took longer to reach Devon, so will leaning and enjoying to live with other races will, you can only learn by having the experiences and down here they are very few and far between.
There is much to be said for the wonderful community's that do exist in many villages, people who share a love for where they live and all join in to make those villages alive and places where friendships are important and caring and looking out for your fellow residents is also very important.
There is also nothing wrong in those who want to protect and hold onto what is important to them, change in such places do not need to happen just because the need for changes had to happen in other places. Thats not to say it should never change, but until there is a need then they will remain as they are and the best that can be hoped is, that everyone keeps an open mind and judges all people only as they find them as people and nothing else.
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Post by aussie on Jul 25, 2009 12:41:53 GMT
That vehicle is possibly up there in uglyness along side the Citroen 2CV or anything Fiat has made!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 25, 2009 12:43:59 GMT
That vehicle is possibly up there in uglyness along side the Citroen 2CV or anything Fiat has made! I fully agree aussie and to make matters worse, the engine was mostly inside between the seats of the driver and passenger |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jul 25, 2009 14:32:04 GMT
That vehicle is possibly up there in uglyness along side the Citroen 2CV or anything Fiat has made! How dare you sir. I drive a Fiat Brava and its very nice (said in the Life of Brian Frenchman scene accent). |
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Post by aussie on Jul 25, 2009 20:06:33 GMT
Oh! Obviously my good man! I do appologise profusely! ;D
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Jul 31, 2009 11:56:30 GMT
I think we need to fetchez la vache! Marvellous posting Mr BD and I recognise a lot of what you say. (but Cornish eh!? - mmm) I was born in Newton and brought up in Paignton but have followed United DESPITE my family. Mum always has been a Hammers fan, not because her family came down from that way (which they did) but because of Trevor Brooking!! My father, despite being proper Lambeth, once replied to me on the subject that he supported Man Utd! Not that he'd ever seen a game.  Older brother doesn't do sport. And so, it was left to me to garner some decency for the family name. All my mates at school came from some wierd places such as Yorkshire but one had a Dad who was United through and through so we started going regular (sometimes down to Argyle when we were away). But now I have moved (personal reasons, not entirely through choice) and live on the Black Country. I didn't go for years but then one day I saved up and went (I think) to Kiddy - and there I saw a huge pair of underpants with Evesham Gulls on it! It was the first time I realised that so many people who had moved away still kept their affinity up. Made me feel all warm inside. As for the teams I moved near to - well I kind of adopted following Villa as a second team but have still had no compunction to actually make the trip to see them live. My daughter despite being born in Torbay hospital and having me as her Dad (who also took her to many games - at great expense I may add!) goes around with some strangely-orange top with a wolf's head upon it. Very unpleasant. So it all comes down to personal choice (is that nature not nurture?) in my opinion. Each to their own, and all that. Anyway, didn't Aussie set up a certain zone for some of the posts (Note; NOT 'posters'!) on here? Something to do with Julian Sills or something...  |
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as it really is not about any breeding and as you say its the characteristic of the individual that such positivety exudes. I don't care where anyone lives, there will be people who live around you who will be positive and be active in something or another and there will be people who decide to just live their life's and do not get involved with much.
