Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 23:02:43 GMT
At the end of the day we know we were very poor today, I think can all agree where changes need to be made. I still will not at this time start letting these first results and performances get me shouting for Buckle to be sacked.
I think we all agree we have good players, yes overweight in the midfield players and we really need to ask why that is, I don't think its because defenders did want to come here, so It really can only be that having resigned Woods and Ellis and believing Hargreaves would do a good job as a CB, he felt he had all the cover there he wanted. Can we still bring players in? if so he must try and start getting the team back on track, by firstly sorting out the defense.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 18, 2008 23:07:03 GMT
Buckle's own match report seems to suggest changes to the starting X1. I'd go with capitalgulls X1 but with Thompson for Wroe. Buckle referred to Wroe as a holding midfielder before the game. Hargreaves is a better one.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 23:11:24 GMT
Watched the game on Setanta. What worries me, as it it did last season, is that we have absolutely nobody who seems to have an ounce of composure about them. Once again I fear we are heading towards last season's dreaded hoofball. Nicholson in particular done my head in. How many times did he launch a 40 yard hoof to the opposition when he had ample time to look up and assess what else was on around him? The wingers were once again non existent, and don't even let me get started on that uncreative central midfield partnership. Feel better now i've got that out my system!! But why Is this? we do have players who can play with the ball, they just need it to their feet. Hoofball again? trust me crowds will drop big time if that is all we will be offered again this season. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 18, 2008 23:16:08 GMT
Hodges at Left back instead of Nicho will substantially reduce this tactic. Particularly with a left footer in front of him making space for the pass along the line or Hargreaves dropping back (from midfield) to collect.
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Aug 18, 2008 23:24:57 GMT
Having read all the posts about tonights game, i cant help but to agree with just about everything written.
With one exception, the comment about Ebbsfleet being poor.
They out played us, out fought us, out thought us, broke well and at times actually passed to each other, triangles as well. Their 2 centre halves were solid, big strong guys and we spent most of the time hoofing it onto their heads. There midfield controlled the middle of the park and their forwards were big and strong and held the ball up well, and to be honest they scored a great goal. Not that he should have been allowed to run through like that.
I stood in the pop side tonight and couldn't believe that some people were booing, slagging off Buckle mid way through the first half. Whilst it was one of the worst games i have seen for a long time, i have to agree with Merse and say it was just a one off?? Lets hope so.
Hargreaves has come in for a bit of stick tonight, but he was no worse than anyone else. The midfield were non existent, i don't like Thompson in that position, and him and Wroe haven't exactly hit it off together.
The only positive i gleaned from tonight was; they cant play as bad as that again this season. No way.
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Post by crooky on Aug 18, 2008 23:30:27 GMT
Watched the game on Setanta. What worries me, as it it did last season, is that we have absolutely nobody who seems to have an ounce of composure about them. Once again I fear we are heading towards last season's dreaded hoofball. Nicholson in particular done my head in. How many times did he launch a 40 yard hoof to the opposition when he had ample time to look up and assess what else was on around him? The wingers were once again non existent, and don't even let me get started on that uncreative central midfield partnership. Feel better now i've got that out my system!! But why Is this? we do have players who can play with the ball, they just need it to their feet. Hoofball again? trust me crowds will drop big time if that is all we will be offered again this season. Why is this indeed, Dave??? I find it all extremely frustrating personally. The biggest factor is normally confidence. The big turn around in playing staff might again effect the cohesion of the side. Surely it would be reasonable to expect players at this level to have a much higher skill level than we now see, and have seen all too regulary for my liking since Buckle took charge last summer. Surely Buckle cannot ask them to play like this??? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 18, 2008 23:46:39 GMT
But why Is this? we do have players who can play with the ball, they just need it to their feet. Hoofball again? trust me crowds will drop big time if that is all we will be offered again this season. Why is this indeed, Dave??? I find it all extremely frustrating personally. The biggest factor is normally confidence. The big turn around in playing staff might again effect the cohesion of the side. Surely it would be reasonable to expect players at this level to have a much higher skill level than we now see, and have seen all too regulary for my liking since Buckle took charge last summer. Surely Buckle cannot ask them to play like this??? Does he ask them to play like that? I see kids playing in the park around here trying to pass the ball to each other, I have never gone with those that say, what do you expect at this level. I do expect players that can trap a ball, pass it and then move into space to try and receive the ball back. I have said it many times before, its not a difficult game and surly pro players should be able to play to some sort of standard. It was said last season, that the team played that way because Buckle wanted it that way, but were we not told we would be playing a more passing game this season. So where is it? |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 19, 2008 3:39:13 GMT
On dirty nights like that success can be achieved through close knit endeavour and everyone sticking together................Ebbsfleet worked harder because they found encouragement from their better touch whilst OUR team badly needed encouragement because the confidence was shot to pieces. I say this to anyone who was there tonight - STAND UP AND BE COUNTED if you want success!  I didn't say anyone's not entitled to boo if they want to, what I did say was the only way out of this is to stick together and work at it. If things are going to fall apart so easily between team and terrace, then all sides will know all they have to do is come to Plainmoor, close the game down and the crowd will get on the backs of the players who will lose confidence. So I'll say it again................... STAND UP AND BE COUNTED IF YOU WANT SUCCESS!If you want to be part of the "baddest", the most negative, self destructive and downright insulting crowd in the BSP, join in the "Roman Circus" of ridicule and abuse. That's how it's coming over on TV and that's how it increasingly sounds when I am at matches myself. I'm not saying be a "happy clappy" grinning idiot, I'm not saying meekly settle for ineptitude and incompetence; but if the crowd lose respect for the players, the players in turn will lose respect for the crowd. I personally gave my thoughts the other day as to why the manager may be playing Hargreaves at central defender and I must say last night the lack of Greavsies' poor technique in the most basic of defenders' roles made him look poor. So will the manager try Hodges there? Will he pair the inexperience of Ellis and Robertson together? Will it be "mix and match"? We'll have to wait and see, but it looks highly unlikely that Todd will be there for a game or two. The players and manager will be under enough pressure as it is without some foolish "ticking time bomb" being stirred up by supporters with an issue to give priority to. Let them get on with it, on the training ground, and on the pitch. Better to be silent than to be self destructive! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2008 5:55:47 GMT
It is because fans want and need success Merse, that failure becomes harder to except. The answer is simple, see what is wrong and not working and put it right. You have heard me say it before, but I will say it again, credit where it is due, but you should also make your feelings known, when there is nothing to give credit for.
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Post by tufcwewillbeback on Aug 19, 2008 6:50:21 GMT
Thanks for your views tufcwewillbeback, I only watched the second half and did not notice Poke having to bad of a game, do you think Adams would be the best to partner Hargreaves in the middle? I think Thompson would be the best one and I would hope he would play the holding role so Hargreaves could support the front two, when needed. Do we really think Hargreaves will have the legs now, that is my big question over him, after watching tonights game you have to ask, just what do they do in training. Calling Buckle out is not what is needed, like gulfc has said, he just needs to admit he has got things wrong, get players playing in their best positions and start will the best eleven, not his chosen few. Thompson was good in pre season but tonight he looked rushed and out of depth. That is why I said I would have Adams with Hargreaves on the basis of tonights performance. Adams has already proved that he can distribute the ball well and is quite a tallented creative player. He does, however, have flaws and I dont think Thompson and Wroe are bad on the basis of 1 game but if Bucks starts with them together again, after that shambolic display, then I would be very dissapointed about the sort of message he is giving to his players. I actually thought that Mansell was fantastic in the midfield in the first half of last season because his sheer work rate forced the opposition into mistakes and that helped Hargreaves to run many a game. However, as we have no other natural right back, I cant imagine Mansell coming back into the midfield. Personally, I have seen nothing to suggest that Hargreaves is any less fit than any other player in the squad and infact, Wroe and Thompson looked unfit to me last night. I think that, for as long as we can keep our best player fit, he needs to start in his favoured position. Many wont agree with me here but id want Woods to come back in at centre back because Ellis and Robertson make to many mistakes. |
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petef
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Post by petef on Aug 19, 2008 8:59:30 GMT
It's not just fitness its also about speed and mobility and Hargreaves at 37 is not quick and not as mobile as say Ellis.
We need his knowhow in the middle where the odd mistake can be covered by younger legs. Or he should maybe just accept that he is to old and not up to it.
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Post by crispygull on Aug 19, 2008 10:14:29 GMT
Well quite simply last night's performance was not good enough.
Too many players put in a below par ferformance and in myopinion they should now pay the price and PB should give other members of the sqaud their chance.
In the past PB has perhaps been guilty of sticking with the same old faces and Chris Hargreaves even hinted at that in his interview piece in the match programme last night. Perhaps PB didnt have confidence in the depth of the squad last season, but there really shouldnt be any worries thi season given the quality we have on the bench and even sat in the stands.
I really believe he could, and should, make half a dozen or so changes for next Saturday's game as so many players werent up to it last night. He needs to restore Hargreaves to his proper position or leave him out all together. Likewise if he doesnt believe that there is a decent enough defender in the squad to play alongside Todd, then he should sign another one, like he tried to do with Johnson. If he does bring one in, then I would expect one to be moved out, perhaps on loan, as the size of the squad is big enough in all honesty.
We really need to add some bite to the midfield, we need players to stick their foot in and win the ball. We also need the wingers to be getting decent crosses in, it really didnt happen last night and if wingers arent doing that then why bother even playing them?
I also think its time for Green and perhaps Dsane as well to be given a chance to see what they can do. To me, we didnt seem to have a lot of pace in the team last night, the likes of Carlisle, Benyon and Wroe arent the quickest. At least Green, Carayol and Dsane should be able to give the team a bit more of that and they have waited patiently enough for their chance.
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cav
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Post by cav on Aug 19, 2008 10:26:26 GMT
After considered thought, here are a few of my observations of the game on Monday.
I think the experiment to have Hargreaves at Centre half must now be shelved. We are certainly losing two players by playing CH at the back and not in the middle.
Thompson had a shocker, nothing like the player seen in pre-season (was not at Histon so cannot comment). Wroe wasn't much better, and with Ebbsfleet on the whole playing more controlled football we were out fought in midfield. Danny Stevens looked all at sea and got brushed off the ball constantly.
Up front Sills and Benyon didn't hit it off first half at all. Benyon with his back to the goal is unfortunately too lightweight and also loses the ball far too easily.
This was basically, with a couple of exceptions, part of my quote from last Tuesday's game. Unfortunately it was the same again last night. Exactly the same problems, no ball retention up front, a completely non- existent midfield and the defensive problems with Hargreaves at centre half were exposed once again!
On the crowd issue. On the whole, I don't like it when the crowd get on the team's backs. Certainly at half and full time the crowd should let them know how they feel about the performance(result?) but at least they were at the game. A poor attendance last night certainly doesn't help the Club coffers.
The only real positive to come out of last night, were PB's comments about changing the team on the O/S.
Lets hope we can put things right for the long trip to Crawley on Saturday.
YELLOW ARMY YELLOW ARMY YELLOW ARMY YELLOW ARMY
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Post by tufcwewillbeback on Aug 19, 2008 10:41:05 GMT
Having read all the posts about tonights game, i cant help but to agree with just about everything written. With one exception, the comment about Ebbsfleet being poor. They out played us, out fought us, out thought us, broke well and at times actually passed to each other, triangles as well. Their 2 centre halves were solid, big strong guys and we spent most of the time hoofing it onto their heads. There midfield controlled the middle of the park and their forwards were big and strong and held the ball up well, and to be honest they scored a great goal. Not that he should have been allowed to run through like that. I stood in the pop side tonight and couldn't believe that some people were booing, slagging off Buckle mid way through the first half. Whilst it was one of the worst games i have seen for a long time, i have to agree with Merse and say it was just a one off?? Lets hope so. Hargreaves has come in for a bit of stick tonight, but he was no worse than anyone else. The midfield were non existent, i don't like Thompson in that position, and him and Wroe haven't exactly hit it off together. The only positive i gleaned from tonight was; they cant play as bad as that again this season. No way. I dont think that Ebbsfleet were poor, I just thought they were not that great. Last season there was games we lost to sides that were simply brilliant on the night and it took alot for teams to beat us. I just dont think that Ebbsfleet were made to work for that win and that is what is dissapointing. There were games last season that we won against teams that played really well but there were very few games that we lost against teams that were not much better than average. This happened last night. Ebbsfleet are better than they were last night but they still came here and won comfortably. |
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Post by geddingtongull on Aug 19, 2008 10:58:58 GMT
Firstly may I congratulate on a super fans forum. I only signed up a couple of weeks ago and so have been following the various comments.
I was at the Histon game and was going to add my opinions but thought to wait to see how the next fews games panned out.
For the first time I watched the game on Setanta last night, my Son in Law has subscribed this year, mainly to watch the Premiership and the England games.
I have read all the comments about the game and would pretty well go along with what has been said. I hold Merse in very high opinion as he has such a long connection with the club.
I have long supported Torquay my first game being back in 1957, but like many supporters have been exciled for many years and now only get to very few home games but far more away games. In fact I think our supporters are far better away from home.
I was very embarrassed by last nights display. If I had sponsored the game finding a Man of the Match would have been hard.
I have the greatest of respect for Paul Buckle and would rather he was the way he is on the touchline than some of the morons in this league, I don't have to mention names! I hope he will see that the use of Chris Hargreaves as a central defender has now failed, certainly on the both occasions I have seen him.
My main concern is up front. I felt at the time we would miss Phillips as he was the sort of player who put himself about and it is in this department we are lacking. Sills, who I rate highly, benefitted from him last season. We are far too lightweight up front especially as we insist on this high ball game. It failed against the big defenders of Histon and failed again last night.
We are only three games into the season and like many don't think we could be as bad again. Yes the fans must get behind the team and will probably do so on Saturday.
Nothing will give me more pleasure than to see Evans and Raynor looking glum or moaning at five o'clock on Saturday.
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I didn't say anyone's not entitled to boo if they want to, what I did say was the only way out of this is to stick together and work at it. If things are going to fall apart so easily between team and terrace, then all sides will know all they have to do is come to Plainmoor, close the game down and the crowd will get on the backs of the players who will lose confidence.