Two seasons in the Conference

Superbly put...

Strange one this Jon. Is Tisdale really commonly thought to be a tactical genius? Most positive comments about Tisdale are surely based on his achievments this year - which in fairness have been pretty impressive. I agree though, for a Manager who has taken his side to the Play Offs two years on the trot Paul Buckle does recieve a lot of negativity. I have watched the last few games in different sections of the ground - this negativity is not isolated to a few on the Popside, even within the Grandstand when we were two one up on Saturday an old boy next to me commented on how many mistakes Buckle had made this year. Add to that the hundreds of fans, who for some reason have stopped going altogether. Can all of this really be put down to raised expectations and a false belief that we have more spending power than ALL of our rivals. I dont think so.

In my opinion, Paul Buckle recieves critisism because he makes more than his fair share of mistakes. He has more room to make mistakes because he has a far bigger squad than most previous TUFC Managers - under Lubos we could not even fill a subs bench let alone debate who and why someone had fallen out with the Manager this week! The fact that we are in the Play Offs says more about the quality of the conference than it does about us and Buckle. It is a very, very poor quality league - poorer even than last year. Now is not the time to do it, as the team deserves our full support, but in a quieter moment during the summer I'll happily and respectfully debate with you that whatever we achieve this season (and that includes promotion) will be achieved inspite of Buckle rather than thanks to him.

Like I said Budliegh now is not the time. My voice may annoy you, but you should be more worried about the hundreds who have stopped talking and more importantly stopped going.

Jon asked a question - Sorry I didn't realise that I wasn't allowed to respond.

I'd agree it is fairly widespread, but I'm not sure if that makes it right.

To my simple way of thinking, it is difficult to understand how we could possibly have amassed as many points as we have if the manager is anywhere near as bad as many claim.

I can only think that:
1. He must have much more resources at his disposal than any of his rivals
2. He must be incredibly, incredibly lucky or
3. He isn't really as bad as people say he is

To my simple way of thinking, the third option seems the least improbable and therefore, by process of elimination, is the one I'll go for.

You are right - maybe we should debate this further after the season is finished.

1~ But that's opinion based on what little is made public about the whole sphere of his working life? I'd suggest that the average fan who's on his back sees little more than his favourite player being left out, defenders hitting it long as an option before trying to play like Barcelona, and "certain" faces being moved on and form a judgment on that.

2~ "A very, very poor quality league" eh? Compared with what, last season, League 2, League 1.................we are where we are, and we are where we are through our own doing. The manager has to work within the confines of where we are. He doesn't have a production line of young talent coming through as Tisdale has, because Tisdale's club has a five year head start on us of being run by football minded people for football minded people. He's not yet able to expand upon his methods of play/tactical approach whatever you want to call it because we are at least a year behind Tisdale's club in moving upward into a slightly more tactically forgiving environment.

3~ "Inspite of Buckle rather than thanks to him" ~ how bloody arrogant and representative of the mean spirited faction who NOW want to make some "Sword of Damocles" judgement based on the outcome of the play off system. So you think three good results will make him worthy of your future support do you? Do you honestly think the results of those three games make one iota of difference as to whether or not the manager is doing a good reconstructive job - a job that took Nigel Clough ten years to do?

As Jon pointed out to us, OUR club is only the seventh best supported club in this "very, very poor quality league". He also suggested that perhaps, OUR manager DOESN'T hold the mighty purse some people allude to. All he has is what any manager of a professional football club would expect to have behind him..................a fully committed and forward looking board who hold a realistic view of what HAS been achieved in the first two years of a new chapter in the life of Torquay United, and not a board who if for a moment listened to all the clap trap and know all nonsense about "quality of league" "man management" and "tactics" would be changing manager every five minutes.

As always a very good debate on this thread and some interesting and differing view points have been made.In the end it all comes downs to expectations and making judgments on Bucks about if he has achieved what we should have based on what some believe he has had at his disposal to get his team out of the BSP.

All I heard on this forum was that with all the resources he had, Bucks getting the team into the play-offs was the least we should expect, some went on to say if he done that then they would be happy.

Bucks has done that in both seasons in his first and second year in management, I wonder how many first time managers have done that, did the manager up the road achieve that feat?

Another thing we keep hearing is about how many mistakes Bucks has made, far more than he should have some people cry. I take the view that everyone has to learn and making mistakes along the way can be good as long as you admit the mistakes and look to see what you can learn from them. By doing so you stand the chance of improving your skills and decision making. but the problems with making mistakes is how costly they turn out to be.

I have always been in the school of thought that poor team selection and more importantly tactics, was the real reason that City went up in what I considered to be our place.What fans wanted really was an honest put your hands up job,one where Bucks said I think I got it wrong.

Being honest and admitting you have got things wrong, is the best way in my book to get the respect of the fans, no one can really expect Bucks to get everything right all of the time, but even when he does get it right, the result will still come down to those out on the pitch doing what was required.

For me the only thing that has disappointed me with Bucks has been his failure to say I got it wrong, now I know merse will give good reasons why he believes that a manager should not do that, its just that is what would show me he is working hard to learn from those mistakes he has made and only beacuse he has admiited he got that or this wrong.

One thing about life is that when things do go wrong and not turn out the way one would hope, so often blame is looked for, who's fault was it? and why did they not do something to prevent it happening, while others may say he could do no more, he did his best and we can ask no more than that.

I do wonder if we are a bunch of moaners at times, lose a game and the HE site is full of anti Buckle comments, how many views were made on the story of Steve Woods,? can anyone tell me why when we win against Burton, a good game and perfect result, not one comment has been added to the story on the HE.

No well dones to Bucks and the players, but If we had lost and as a result lost our play-off spot, then you would have seen 30+ views posted on the HE site.I talked with some fellow members before the Burton game and we all asked what the forum would be like when we got home. A win and play-off place and the forum would be a happy place, a defeat and out of the play-offs, then it would have had plenty of anti Buckle posts.

This forum was started after last season had ended and at a time I was not very emotionally stable, due to all that was going on with Carol after we had dared to hope we had won the battle with cancer. Merse played such a big part in helping the forum tick over and one Saturday night it was just me and mickyflash on the forum making posts.

I did get days of of pure frustration I admit that, coming home from work after having to fight voices in my head all day on my own in the van, then looking forward to escaping on the forum, only to find so many had been on and no one had made any posts.

Dear graygull posted that once the football season started the posts would flow, only we made a poor start to the season and I feared that the forum was becoming far to negative, but to be fair it was the general mood of the fans at that time and the posts made on the forum only really reflected how fans were feeling about our poor start.

Its fine to have views points that differ from others, its fine to see things the way you see then and post those views, I have always respected those who state there views and stick with them if that is what they truly believe.

Its the members who come in shouting the loudest and then run and hide if others do not agree with them, those who throw their toys out of the pram and those who if what they have stood by turns out not to be correct, then they fail to say sorry I got it wrong.

The biggest and loudest anti Buckle voice on here belonged to Dave Shaw, I dreaded ever time we lost a game this season, as I knew he would have started a thread, always claiming that Bucks had no balls. Sorry but did Dave Shaw show he had any balls of his own? He was always free to post his views on the forum, but being so anti Buckle as he was, he needed balls to take any flack that came his way due to the views he held.

He proved he had no balls and deleted his account, then when we lost another game he opened a new account using a different user name and started a new anti Buckle thread, he simply was not man enough to come on here and post under the name we all knew him as, that for me had the effect of dismissing all the views he ever made on the forum.

That is where posters like enzo are so different and I have respect for him and others who may not see things the way most on here do, but will post his own views and give his reasons and will still give praise if he thinks its due.

If we go up as we all hope then will we see Dave Shaw come on here and say I got it wrong lads, Bucks has shown hes got the balls and the skills and know how to get this team out of the BSP, I wonder if the worst was to happen and we did not go up, will we see him then? will we be treated to I told you so.

We will see but unlike Dave Shaw Bucks has shown he has got balls, he is not running or hiding away, he is still there and giving it all he has to get TUFC back into the football league, he even more recently has shown that he is prepared to put his hand up when he has got things wrong and we can ask no more than our manager being honest and doing what he believes is best for the team and doing what he believes will bring us the success we all crave for.

Well, Dave i'm back (as you well know) and not lurking. I make absolutely no apology for my opinions. My reasons for deleting my account are personal and will remain so.
My reason for re-posting is to join in the party when we go up. My opinion on Buckle hasn't changed at all. Napoleon said that he would rather have a lucky general than a good one. Let's hope Buckles good fortune continues.

All i want is promotion. If we get it then Buckle has earnt the right to have a crack in div 2, if not he should step aside and let someone else take us forward. Nothing contentious there then and totally reasonable. Dave, you do seem to follow the rest of the sheep. Arn't you a royalist as well?.....bless.