Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 22, 2009 20:13:07 GMT
We can talk to the cows come about did Bucks bring in the right mix of players for this season, many felt he ended up with far too many midfield players and that is why he put Hargreaves at the back, to get his new signings into the team.
Its my view that the likes of Adams and Green and a few others, signed for TUFC expecting to feature in many of the games due to be played during the season. The problem with having such a large squad is so many are going to get left out, not even make the bench.
If they don't get a game for some time, how can they really be expected to come in and even be match fit, let alone match sharp. The only way they would have any chance was to be playing some regular football.
That could only really happen in the club had a reserve side that was playing in some half decent league. I'm not sure of the league rules, sure Ant would know what league a TUFC reserve team would be allowed to play in.
It would serve two purposes in my mind, one keep the fringe player happy and at least playing and keeping match fit and sharp. Two use the reserve team to ease first team players back from injury.
If a club at our level does not have a reserve team than I question why it would have such a large squad that has to cost plenty of money in wages. I feel its better to have a smaller squad and even pay a bit extra for the extra quality player or two.
If we failed to go up this season, I can see the club having a smaller squad next season anyway, what with wage capping and the real need to keep all players happy, it has to make perfect sense.
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sam
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Post by sam on Apr 23, 2009 8:13:06 GMT
I favour a reserve team but whether we can afford it or not is another question. I think it would have to be Western League, I don't know whether we would have to go in the Peninsula league first. I think the youth team has been a real boon with some good potential coming through eg. Ed Palmer. In their first season with many youngsters - viz. 16/17 year olds - playing they have given a good acount of themselves. Not having a youth team was a disaster for this club. I agree with Dave, either smaller squad or a reserve team, not the half way house it is now.
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evertoned
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Post by evertoned on Apr 23, 2009 12:25:17 GMT
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merse
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Post by merse on Apr 23, 2009 14:50:51 GMT
I favour a reserve team but whether we can afford it or not is another question. I think it would have to be Western League, Is the Western League still an option for a reserve team? I thought that they were no longer accepting such teams in the pyramid level that they are any longer. My view is that we should be in the available South Western competition for reserve teams that Exeter and Yeovil play in, playing midweek so as not to overstretch resources and allowing young developing players like Benyon, Green, Stevens, Ellis and Caryol time and space to work on their game without the pressure of results or the risk of getting clobbered by some agricultural oaf from Ottery St Mary or such like I also feel we lack someone on the staff who is working at developing these young pro's anyway. We have Matt Williams, Compo and Robbie Herrera working with the youths but no-one seems available to bring out the potential and polish the rough diamonds that these young pro's need so badly. I sincerely feel this matter needs addressing in the summer, because the way I see it; the club is not really that attractive a proposition for the likes of the players I have mentioned to consider as one worth joining when they are in the hiatus period of leaving their previous employment and looking to progress in their careers. Maybe there's a role for Greavsie there to be a reserve player/manager come coach and mentor..................a very underrated necessity in my view at any club with pretensions of evolving into a truly professional set up that can assemble a conveyor belt of talent for the First Team.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Apr 23, 2009 19:27:28 GMT
We certainly couldn't afford to reduce the playing staff. Two players for every position is roughly what any manager would want at the start of a season i think. But i also don't believe it's feasible to think we're in a position to introduce a reserve side. That would certainly be the solution in an ideal world, but to run a reserve side, and play the amount of games necessary without too many players having to play a couple of games a week, you're looking at carrying a squad of 30+, and i don't see that being financially viable. I think the obvious option, which Bucks has done to an extent this season, is to utilise the loan system - it doesn't have to be one-way! A squad of 22, with 3 or 4 out on loan at any one time (with recall clauses) keeping in shape, has to be the best choice for us in our current situation.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 19:37:06 GMT
Shane can you really see the club being able to have a squad of 22 players next season if it did not go up? The first thing to ask is if we are still on the BSP next season just what effect will that have on the gates.
I firmly believe another season ending in heartache, (if that happened) would see gates of only 1500 and when you then remember that wage capping will be in force, you have to really start thinking that the squad might only be 16 full time pros.
I do not agree you would need a squad of 30 players to run a reserve side as well, we do have a good youth set up now at the club and the reserve team could be a mix of the fringe first team players and the best and most promising youth players.
Could we really afford a reserve team? well maybe not next season as a BSP team, but as a div2 team I think it could fit into the budget and be a very important thing to have running.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Apr 23, 2009 19:41:30 GMT
Shane can you really see the club being able to have a squad of 22 players next season if it did not go up? The first thing to ask is if we are still on the BSP next season just what effect will that have on the gates. I firmly believe another season ending in heartache, (if that happened) would see gates of only 1500 and when you then remember that wage capping will be in force, you have to really start thinking that the squad might only be 16 full time pros. I do not agree you would need a squad of 30 players to run a reserve side as well, we do have a good youth set up now at the club and the reserve team could be a mix of the fringe first team players and the best and most promising youth players. Could we really afford a reserve team? well maybe not next season as a BSP team, but as a div2 team I think it could fit into the budget and be a very important thing to have running. You're probably right, we couldn't afford to carry 22 players of decent quality - certainly if several of them were harldy to kick a ball. With the selection preference of the manager, we could maybe manage with 15 or 16 quality players, with 5 or 6 lesser squad members, who would be happy to be called upon only when desperation calls. Didn't we try that before though?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 23, 2009 19:58:17 GMT
We did indeed Shane and not much changed having 22 to pick from it may well have to be the case of only being able to pay for 15 or 16 half decent pros, but to be honest while I'm the sort of person who does look at what might have to happen If we were in the BSP next season, I'm still very positive that we will go up and all this will not really matter then. In saying that I see no harm in looking what might happen next season, I'm sure the club has both a plan A and a plan B, just like the manager
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merse
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Post by merse on Apr 24, 2009 3:41:55 GMT
Given the obvious investment due the board's determination in achieving promotion and the very obvious loss of a third of last season's average support, I don't think any right thinking person would be surprised when a substantial financial loss is announced for this period. This only goes to underline just how much of a thankless task and an almost impossible mission it is to adequately fund a competitive professional football operation in any area let alone Torbay, and even in the BSP as opposed to the Football League. Promotion back to the Football League will ensure the club receives a substantial monetary influx by way of the "reverse parachute" arrangements put in place when two up and two down were agreed between the Football league and the BSP a few years ago. Failure to win promotion will inevitably result in a much reduced budget being in force for next season, a budget that could well have far reaching consequences for OUR football club and ALL those who are employed by it. Therefore I continue to find it extremely exasperating that a growing juvenile and lame brained faction are showing their inability to grasp even the most basic of tenets, namely that the Football Club can only function as well as the support of the public allows it, AND as well as it's all round financial income allows it. They show this inability by jumping on such things as the "Woods Is A Martyr" bandwagon, the "Hargreaves MUST Be Employed For Ever" school of thought and the "It's Too Expensive To Go In" lobby, when in fact the match day entrance cost is set to remain virtually unchanged for three years now. Taken all that into consideration, isn't it obvious just how important this Sunday's match is in the future of OUR football club, and the future prospects of all who work for it? I'm afraid it appears to be the opposite with so many though, given the pathetic wittering of Fonda over his latest hobby horse and the Player of the Season awards............................wittering that hardly command a support faction of one on this forum yet seem to attract the like mindedness of a considerable percentage of juvenile or juvenile minded contributors to "another site". If ever a subject told a particular story as to the intelligence and common sense of the two sites' various and varied contributors, then the topical points of the past twenty four hours, then this is it; and if ever a subject were to reveal those who choose to continue to contribute to that "other site" then this would be it.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Apr 24, 2009 8:26:59 GMT
Given the obvious investment due the board's determination in achieving promotion and the very obvious loss of a third of last season's average support, I don't think any right thinking person would be surprised when a substantial financial loss is announced for this period. This only goes to underline just how much of a thankless task and an almost impossible mission it is to adequately fund a competitive professional football operation in any area let alone Torbay, and even in the BSP as opposed to the Football League. Promotion back to the Football League will ensure the club receives a substantial monetary influx by way of the "reverse parachute" arrangements put in place when two up and two down were agreed between the Football league and the BSP a few years ago. Failure to win promotion will inevitably result in a much reduced budget being in force for next season, a budget that could well have far reaching consequences for OUR football club and ALL those who are employed by it. Therefore I continue to find it extremely exasperating that a growing juvenile and lame brained faction are showing their inability to grasp even the most basic of tenets, namely that the Football Club can only function as well as the support of the public allows it, AND as well as it's all round financial income allows it. They show this inability by jumping on such things as the "Woods Is A Martyr" bandwagon, the "Hargreaves MUST Be Employed For Ever" school of thought and the "It's Too Expensive To Go In" lobby, when in fact the match day entrance cost is set to remain virtually unchanged for three years now. Taken all that into consideration, isn't it obvious just how important this Sunday's match is in the future of OUR football club, and the future prospects of all who work for it? I'm afraid it appears to be the opposite with so many though, given the pathetic wittering of Fonda over his latest hobby horse and the Player of the Season awards............................wittering that hardly command a support faction of one on this forum yet seem to attract the like mindedness of a considerable percentage of juvenile or juvenile minded contributors to "another site". If ever a subject told a particular story as to the intelligence and common sense of the two sites' various and varied contributors, then the topical points of the past twenty four hours, then this is it; and if ever a subject were to reveal those who choose to continue to contribute to that "other site" then this would be it. Why must you make every issue personal? What has that thread got to do with this one? Why don't you just answer the points i've made in this thread, and stop endlessly referring to me, ragardless of relevance, in your every utterance. I'm pretty tired of the continued insinuation that everything i post is done with the intention of having a dig at the club. I don't know how many times i can post how thankful i am personally, and how i'm sure we all are, for what the consortium have done for us. Trying to paint some as 'the bad guys', whilst simultaneously sainting yourself is embarassing. I post my honest opinion on each issue as it arises. There is no 'agenda', so i'd appreciate it if you'd stop looking for one. What is it that you fear so much about an alternate view? Are you in fact fearful of debate? Are you afraid for example, someone might question how you saw Craig Taylor as a cultured centre-half, and be lost for an answer? What were you saying about intelligence? But that's not in this thread, so not for discussion here. How many more times will i have to make a post like this i wonder? Do you think these little spats benefit the board, because i don't, and i'm sure Dave and everyone else struggle to too. Stop commenting on me, and comment only on my posts. If you want any more tips on how to behave on a forum, PM me.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 24, 2009 17:08:05 GMT
How many more times will i have to make a post like this i wonder? Do you think these little spats benefit the board, because i don't, and I'm sure Dave and everyone else struggle to too. . Shane we talked a while ago about your membership on the forum, nothing has changed in anything I said to you then. Firstly you freely joined and as a fan of TUFC you were welcome to become a member. Being a member gives you the opportunity to post any views you may have, it will mean that those views may often be challenged, but then you know that as do all who use forums. What you should also expect is that only your views are questioned or agreed with and nothing should ever be aimed at you that might be considered personal. As adults on here we should be able to disagree without the need to start being rude or insulting or being over personal. Last night you posted your views, I came back to you with mine and then you replied fair enough that is how it should be done by everyone. So the question is do I think you are a serial moaner Shane? there are times I would have to be honest and say yes, but I know you go to plenty of games, pays your money over and therefore you have a right to have views like any other fan. This is only my view, but where I think you go wrong is not looking at something from every angle before you make a post on it. For example, you could feel that Woods was pushed out of the club unfairly and also truly believe he won the award only because he fully deserved it and then you see the presentation not going ahead as normal, then there would be nothing wrong asking the question, is Woods being treated poorly again. But stand back and read what the club said on their website and also in the Herald Express and ask yourself is what they are saying making good sense when the game is a season defining one. I know that if it was Wroe who won it(I voted for him) and the club put out the same statement I would not worry that Wroe would have to wait to receive his award and I don't think anyone else would. Its only because Its Wood who left the club under what some might like to call a cloud. Even if the club had taken the decision because it was felt that Woods was voted for to put two fingers up to the manager, you would not expect them to make a statement to that fact. As I said before its a case of looking at what really is the most important part of the day and at this time just before such a big match, we really should be posting our views and thoughts on the game. Its so easy to look to deeply into things and spend far too much time trying to find answers that may not even be there, sometimes we just need to except that some things are done for the reasons stated. Go back a few months to a thread title that appeared on the other forum Colin Lee Bans The Sponsor posted only knowing one half of a story and not considering all the true facts. Two powerful men locked in a dispute over a private matter, one the CE of the club and one the sponsor. Knowing the two men would it really have been wise to have them both in the same place at that time? well I don't think it would have been and as Colin Lee is the CE, you would not expect to see him being asked to stand on the popside. As a result of all that was put out on that forum did anything change? did Alex Rowe resign as asked, or even Colin Lee, did Bucks agree that he can't have any medical supplies as was stated for his players? I can tell you nothing did change and what good did any thing that was written do, nothing just so easily could have caused real harm. It was all very sad for all concerned and there as always must have been blame on both sides, but that night we also had a game on and someone at the club has to make decisions putting the very best interest of the club first. That I believe is what has happened now and lets please put our energy into writing some good points about the game ahead.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Apr 24, 2009 17:18:52 GMT
As the creator of this site Dave, i take your criticism on board. Perhaps i do post in haste sometimes, but football is a passionate game. I support the club as much as everyone else. I wouldn't hand over £15 at the turnstiles every home game if i wanted the club to fail. Regardless of what any individuals here might believe, i have no agenda. I post what i think, whether it be positive or negative. I fail to see the problem in expressing an alternate view. Debate is healthy, and what makes the forum thrive. What has a negative impact on a foum is people turning innocent debate into a personal issue. I'm more than happy for people to disagree with my opinion, i positively welcome it as i enjoy the debate. What i don't appreciate is self-important individuals thinking that just because they are amongst friends, they are justified in making personal comments about those perhaps of a minority opinion. Certain individuals need to learn to focus on the post, not the poster. It's merely forum etiquette. Just an opinion you understand.
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Post by jimd on Apr 24, 2009 17:44:51 GMT
Fonda
Please dont delete your link to this site.
I for one enjoy reading your views and I do think that sometimes you get a raw deal...from what I recall you used to get a raw deal on the kids site too.
Keep plugging your point of view no matter who disagrees with it , I for one think that this s ite would be poorer if you left.
Your view is as valid as the next persons.
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Post by aussie on Apr 24, 2009 17:54:10 GMT
Here here Jim D, absolutely agree!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 24, 2009 18:15:54 GMT
Shane my post was not as the creator of this site,only as a fellow member and it was not meant to be seen as critical in anyway, just an observation that may we right or wrong.
I do think you have not fully understood my post or what I was trying to say( as your PM indicated) as you know I have tried to explain it in my reply PM to you.
I get told off far to often for always wanting to analyze everything far to much, but I take the view that by doing so I can then hopefully see the whole picture and that can only help to try and make correct decisions, or see things has I should.
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