Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2008 20:25:42 GMT
Not really a tennis fan, but what a great match the mens final was. It really seems a shame there had to be a loser. But is there something missing from the finals that take place today.
What I mean is, where has all that racket throwing, stomping of the feet and shouting at the umpire gone. Simply now they use technology to sort out the problems when a player thinks a ball was in or out.
I also don't much care for that other ball game, the one with the funny shaped ball. To be fair I do not understand the rules and have never really felt like trying too. Still I have seem some parts of a game on the TV and guess what? they have video judges, to clear up and doubtful tries.
So it must be time in football, to have the same technology. How many points, or cup finals are lost because of bad calls. Its there, it can be brought in, but just when will we see it.
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Jul 6, 2008 20:41:48 GMT
Hi Dave,
Having played with egg-shaped balls for many years the other issue is the player and ref respect shown by the exponents, something sadly lacking and getting worse in the higher echelons of football.
But back to your pint; I wholeheartedly agree. If the Premiership can come up with such anti-fan ideas as the 39th game on foreign soil they should embrace such sensible ideas as technology. It's down to the FA to have the guts I suppose.
My favourite would be the ball over the line question. The captain of a team can call for video evidence and if necessary stop the game in doing so. A goal is a goal and if not, play re-starts with the defending goalkeeper. Do it on a trial basis and see if it works. At the end of the day most linos flag for a throw-in when the ball's edge just crosses the sideline so I wouldn't trust them to get the goal decision right.
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midlandstufc
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Posts: 945
Favourite Player: Dawkins lol
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Post by midlandstufc on Jul 6, 2008 20:43:03 GMT
"Back to your pint"??
Must be the vino in my hand. Half-price deal from the supermarket and I can tell why now.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2008 20:52:50 GMT
you can always use the modify button, I find I have to use it lots ;D ;D I have nothing against rugby, as I said I really need to learn the rules, to try and understand the game better. Sadly our game has its problems, but the FA needs to act more.
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midlandstufc
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Posts: 945
Favourite Player: Dawkins lol
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Post by midlandstufc on Jul 6, 2008 20:56:02 GMT
I've tried teaching the wife and kids the rules but have given up!
Yes, the FA should venture out of Soho square and talk to those who matter in this game - the fans!
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Post by jimd on Jul 6, 2008 21:24:59 GMT
I've got to disagree. I think that the doubt that sometimes exists as to whether it was or wasn't a goal, penalty, foul or whatever is good for the game.
What do we all talk about in the pub after a game?...it's the contentious decisions that get us going, that bring out the passion.
I would never want it to be cut and dried and proven beyond doubt..leave the human element in the game I say.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2008 21:37:48 GMT
Well Jim (the rude Mod ;D) I know what you mean about having something to talk about in the pub.
But is it fair for a team to lose out on promotion, simply because a goal was given, when it clearly wasn't. You see I'm all for fair play and winning fairly, if that means having to depend on technology. then bring it on.
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Post by jimd on Jul 6, 2008 21:46:20 GMT
Yes it is fair..it could happen to either side.
I like to see a brilliantly worked peach of a goal but I also like to be able to ask the referee to get his eyes tested.
I like being able to say, when we lose, that was never a goal he was miles offside, i like leaving the ground when we won and we all knew it wasn't really a goal.
I honestly would not like it all to decided by technology, give me human error and inconsistencies anyday...after all it is only a game and not a matter of life and death.
I had better run and hide now I have just realised that I posted something that my wife says to me when we lose.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 6, 2008 21:53:51 GMT
Best find an elephant to hide under Jim, I can see our meeting on Tuesday is going to be lively, I must confess put the way you have put it, you win, now how many times does your wife say that to you ;D
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merse
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Post by merse on Jul 7, 2008 2:49:31 GMT
I've got to disagree. I think that the doubt that sometimes exists as to whether it was or wasn't a goal, penalty, foul or whatever is good for the game. What do we all talk about in the pub after a game?...it's the contentious decisions that get us going, that bring out the passion. I would never want it to be cut and dried and proven beyond doubt..leave the human element in the game I say.  Never a truer word spoken in my opinion, and if I might also add; a classic example of the chasm between the old traditional fan of the game and the modern day exponent of "TV Expertise"You can provide all the evidence you like but if the "judge" is an idiot or doesn't apply the letter of the law then you are wasting your time. I was at a rugby match a while ago where they utilised a video screen to decide whether or not a player had a foot in touch before he grounded the ball for a try and they took an inexorable amount of time replaying his foot and the touchline, time and time again, then in reverse, then forward in freeze frame motion. There was time to go and have a dump, buy a pie, eat it and s**g the tasty chick in the buffet before the decision was made; and when it was some bright spark piped up "ref, didn't he drop the ball when he was grounding it?" For a pregnant moment we all thought "here we go again" and for the record, the score difference at the time was over twenty points between the teams..................pathetic - and if they bring that into OUR game how many appreciate that for a goal to be given or for a ball to be out of play the WHOLE of the ball has to be over the WHOLE of the goal/touchline. As I said you can have all the technology you like but you need the calibre of judge too. * Jim: I'd like to nominate Chris Hayes as a "Human Element" and be happy to let you be the judge as to whether or not he qualifies...............no video evidence though please! Welcome Chris - nice to "see" you on here!  |
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Post by buster on Jul 7, 2008 20:06:40 GMT
If there was nothing to debate about a game most of us would have little to talk about at work on a Monday morning...... well thats what I`ve been told.
Whilst debate has a place, respect for others and a balanced rational opinion should be paramount.
From what I have seen mistakes have led to nothing but anger and disrespect aimed at match officials and in the case of Utd, keepers.
If football shuns technology and continues with the heavy reliance on eye sight and split second decisions, should other things change?
1. 4th official- what do they actually do beyond winding up the benchs and trying to operate a board that no one can read?
Why not get em on the pitch and have 2 refs, one in each half. There are stewards and police if the waring factions can`t control themselves..
2. Respect - currently very little is shown. Football could learn alot from both codes of rugby. Without meaning to offend it is offend said rugby players tend to be better educated than footballers. But I would say league players are more on a par with footballers yet they seem able to conduct themselves in a proffessional manner. So where does the problem lie? Is it the coaches or "pampered and protected footballers"?
3. Captains - what do they really do?
I`ve watched as Gerrard & Terry two supposedly top respected English leaders appear unable or unwilling to control team mates when anything kicks off. Indeed Terry is often in the thick of it.
4. Same rule should apply to all. whether it be financial or opinion.
A striker can balloon a ball over the bar but be praised for being in the right place but how many would say the same about a keeper who lets one in?
Which leads nicely to the debate about Utds players.
Rice has come in for a lot of stick for supposedly costing us points. Yes he did make some poor decisions, but.....
How many though have said the same about Benyon (header in trophy final), Zebs (hitting post in final and his tendany to shoot off target), phillips (for missing at SJP on boxing day) for their missed chances. Benyon and Zebs are hailed as prospects whilst poor young Rice can seemingly do nothing right.
So my point would be yes debate is good but things could be done to help reduce the amount of venom and increase the level of respect.
Buster
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 7, 2008 20:20:21 GMT
That was my point really, that incorrect decisions only lead to not only the teams losing out, but does cause a lot of ill feeling.
Maybe my problem is that for me to win, I had to be the better competitor, not winning by some poor decision, or because I cheated.
There are those who will always feel the only important thing is the win, as you get nothing for losing. But how many times have fans got upset, if they felt the other team were cheating to try and win.
Would you really be happy walking a way from the ground happy that your team won, while inside you were ashamed to call them your team, because they cheated. I just feel there are games when far to much is riding on the result, to lose it and what could be millions of pounds lost to a club,simply because a ref gave a goal when it wasn't, can't be fair and a better way needs to be found.
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cav
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Post by cav on Jul 15, 2008 11:22:54 GMT
I think that goal line technology is not a bad idea. Is it a goal or not? Fair enough. But not for anything else... offside, penalties, anything else is always going to be subjective. Refs' and linesmen make mistakes, so be it.
What I would like to see is a zero tolerance attitude toward players AND Managers concerning dissent to the officials!
I would allow only the captain to politely speak to officials concerning MAJOR decision only. Anything else, yellow cards to all concerned showing dissent. If teams are having 7 or 8 players booked and a couple sent off every week, it would soon stop.
Let the crowd howl and scream ( I know, I do!) at what would seem unjust decisions, not the players.
It was nice to see Howard Webb give a penalty for shirt tugging during Euro 2008. It was noticeable from then on that defenders were reluctant to wrestle their opponent to the ground at corners and free kicks for fear of actually being penalised for the fouls they WERE committing.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 15, 2008 11:36:30 GMT
Yes I think it would really should only be used to decide goals. If we start having the ref to check this video, or that video, we might end up being at the game all day.
I have to agree with you point about, the captain only should be the one to speak with the ref. Far to many players these days want to get in the refs face. The problem, will always be, how does a ref deal with it, no one wants to see yellow cards given out, but what other action could a ref take.
Yellow cards can lead to a red card, for any next offense, plus lead to suspension's, during the season.While any ref needs to keep order on the pitch, the fans and clubs will always want there to be 11 players on each side. Its like anything really, once the message gets in the players head, that you could not approach the ref, the ones who do get a yellow, I'm sure it could work.
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Post by witneygull on Jul 15, 2008 11:54:57 GMT
The good thing about football is that the rules are the same whether on the local park, Plainmoor or Wembley, no equipment needed over a few lines in the right place, 2 goals and a ball. Once you get into the need for technology, it's another barrier between the top flight and the rest, which I think we can do without.
How many decisions would a goal line camera actually settle differently to the way the match officials called it? Not many I'd guess.
As for other decisions, referring to video refs would do nothing other than break up the flow of the game for little gain.
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Never a truer word spoken in my opinion, and if I might also add; a classic example of the chasm between the old traditional fan of the game and the modern day exponent of "TV Expertise"
