merse
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Post by merse on Apr 3, 2009 21:03:16 GMT
 I've just watched the ITV Sport documentary on Brian Clough tonight, and how pleased I am that I managed to catch it on it's second showing on ITV4! That's because I've recently finished reading "The Damned United", David Peace's novel (and I stress novel) on the same subject and in particular a bi-focal story line of his times at Derby County and Leeds United ~ which as most of us realise only lasted a shocking 44 days. In tonight's programme Brian's widow Barbara asked the question "have you ever before heard of a novel about a real person?" and Johhny Giles (who successfully sued the author for libel) made the significent point that out of the main characters who were (in his opinion) libelled in the novel; he was the only one still living and that also in his opinion, had any of the others been living they too would have successfully sued for libel also. Now in my opinion, as a novel; "The Damned United" is very good as long as people who read it don't forget that it is indeed a novel and not a documentary or biography. I once enjoyed a long and sleepless night discussing Cloughie and what it was like to play under him with former Gulls and Hartlepool player Mick Somers who as a Nottingham resident still maintains a friendship with the Clough family and the man he was still calling "Boss" until the day he died. I must say the novel struck me as a complete antithesis of the vision Mick had given and that helped me keep the fact that this book is fiction easily to the fore of my mind. The programme tonight too was fascinating for the extensive contribution of Roy MacFarland..................another who's profile is somewhat different when depicted on here by certain posters to the one I formed for myself in talking to the man, and that leads me to question the "fiction" that is often posted on here also regarding Paul Buckle and his management style and man management skills; let alone his preference for so called "hoof ball" which was always a work of fiction if I ever I saw one, rather than the realisation that such simplistic football usually reared it's head when the players' individual or collective confidence has been low. Brian Clough...................the archtypal manager who insisted on his players "playing the game the way it is meant to be played", but by his own admission found it rather easier to instill that quality in his Derby and Forest players rather than the ones he managed at Hartlepools and Brighton! Has the penny dropped yet Dave? 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2009 7:28:56 GMT
I saw Damned United at the cinema yesterday. It's very different to the book and - in my opinion - much more obviously a work of fiction. I'm not entirely sure of the extent of David Peace's involvement but it comes across as somebody else's attempt to tell the story. That's the nature of the book-to-film beast I suppose and, if you enjoyed the book, it's fun to watch an alternative telling. Entertaining but - such is my wont - I invariably prefer the book to the picture. There's nothing like Peace's attention to detail which helps with the fiction. I won't spoil your fun but you could drive the proverbial coach and horses through some of the inaccuracies (the Brighton interlude being one example). There's also an odd mix of cars which look too early for the period and football chants that are far too late for the era. The location work is interesting and I was very slow to spot the football ground used in lieu of the Baseball Ground. Aside from the ground, the film is mainly shot in Yorkshire which - oddly - makes what is supposed to be Derby look very much like Leeds! I hadn't woked out that Mick Somers would have played under Cloughie at Hartlepools United (as they then were) before he departed for Derby in June 1967. Here's how Playfair recorded that 66/67 season (with a new manager in place by the time of publication):  And, below, Clough's first season at Derby (1967/68). Note McFarland was one of his very first signings and that McGovern didn't arrive until after the start of 68/69:  You can see things were already taking shape which - much later along the road - was also clear from this October 1976 Division Two game at the City Ground:  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 21:13:17 GMT
I was in Derby yesterday and a few things came to mind about Cloughie and the Rams in general. Not before, of course, I instinctively looked for the Baseball Ground on the left hand side of the train. The old place was there for years after the move to Pride Park but there's no sign now although you can still see the remains of the Ramsline Halt railway station that was close to the ground. According to Wikipedia - no idea of the accuracy of this I confess - it was only ever used by four trains.
Arriving in Derby I'm always surprised to find it's a city (but only since 1977). This reminds me of the buffoon who, after Derby won the Championship under Dave Mackay in 1975, penned a song in honour of Derby City, Champions of England. I suppose that's not unlike the story of Barnstaple Town ordering some souvenirs over the phone and being mortified when they arrived emblazoned Barnstable Town. We all make mistakes, don't we?
Having just seen the Damned United something made me remember the great furore of when Leeds - in advance of their European Cup semi-final against Celtic - sent a reserve team to play Derby on Easter Monday 1970. That simply wasn't the done thing in those pre-squad rotation days and Leeds were fined. There was a 41,000 crowd at Derby that day and Cloughie wasn't amused. The incident is in the book but not the film.
And what of the Derby County of today? According to the Evening Telegraph the club's debt has been cut from £31m to £23m with plans to bring it down to £15m by 31 August. If those figures bemuse you, what about these? Derby sold 22,000 season tickets this year, are selling out games and are already on 10,000 season ticket renewals for next year.
A real football town in my opinion and - with a population of 240,000 - it's no bigger than Plymouth. I guess the club draws support from all over Derbyshire and, from memory, I believe Clough's nemesis Sam Longson (Derby's chairman back then) ran a haulage business up near Chapel-En-Le-Frith which is nearer Manchester than Derby and more northern than midland in outlook.
One last personal memory of Derby is of spending an afternoon in the directors' box at the Baseball Ground as a 40th birthday treat (a friend's dad was a mate of Lionel Pickering). That was fine but the weekend also involved spending a night at the worst guest house I've ever encountered. It was the weekend that Nick Leeson spent his first night in prison in Singapore. Another night at the Plews and we would have been in envy of the bugger.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Apr 8, 2009 22:52:47 GMT
This reminds me of the buffoon who, after Derby won the Championship under Dave Mackay in 1975, penned a song in honour of Derby City, Champions of England. I suppose that's not unlike the story of Barnstaple Town ordering some souvenirs over the phone and being mortified when they arrived emblazoned Barnstable Town. We all make mistakes, don't we? Ashley Giles ordered a load of mugs for his benefit year saying "Ashley Giles - King of Spin". They turned up saying "Ashley Giles - King of Spain". |
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merse
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Post by merse on Apr 9, 2009 2:45:55 GMT
I suppose that's not unlike the story of Barnstaple Town ordering some souvenirs over the phone and being mortified when they arrived emblazoned Barnstable Town. We all make mistakes, don't we? Ashley Giles ordered a load of mugs for his benefit year saying "Ashley Giles - King of Spin". They turned up saying "Ashley Giles - King of Spain". I bet Dave bought one of those "Barnstable" mugs  ...................and Ashley Giles has indeed been known as "The King of Spain" ever since!  A mate of mine bought a job lot of a thousand QPR bobble hats in the "club's colours" of green & white for a hundred quid and they sold like hot cakes as a "special offer to OAPS" in Dalston's Ridley Market at 50 pence each! ..................and there's a wholesaler in Commercial Street E1 who knocks out Chinese made club footballs in the wrong colours and he sells them by the shed load. There's the obligatory green and white QPR, yellow and white Arsenal, red and white Man City....................you get the drift. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Apr 9, 2009 2:56:53 GMT
Last year I picked up 25 complete and bagged Arsenal "maroon Last Season at Highbury" childrens' kits at £2 a kit and we sent them to Bijou's gran in Kinshasa, Congo where she hires them out to kids football teams as another enterprise in the family wholesale business. Bijou reckons the socks will still be in pristine condition as the custom is for kids to play barefoot owing to the impossibility of affording boots!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 9, 2009 16:14:09 GMT
I bet Dave bought one of those "Barnstable" mugs Well so glad you have worked out at last why I was spelling it all wrong on the forum and also Bideford. I wonder If I can get a refund.  |
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