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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2009 22:48:15 GMT
There’s been a few things on this site this week – and on my travels – which have prompted some thoughts about the nature of watching football.
To start there was the debate about Pat Kruse’s own goal. Was it a backpass or a header? Okay it was thirty-odd years ago but it’s funny how we remember things differently. It also amazes me the detail people recall. I’ve known somebody from school days who still comes out with statements such as “Jimmy Dunne got the first after Mick Cave....” I've no reason to doubt his memory and believe him every time.
Naturally there’s plenty of people who can recall incident after incident of the game they’ve just seen and – what’s more – describe them brilliantly. This site benefits enormously from that ability. And what of talking about matches afterwards? You may choose to discuss the game ad finitum or barely at all (and it may depend on what you've seen). I went to Wolves on Tuesday night with three friends. It wasn’t a great game - although we enjoyed it – but I doubt we discussed it for more than two minutes on the way home (and, by my reckoning, Jon must have caught us at J25).
What of the way we watch matches? What do we see? What do we look out for? What do we understand and what do we routinely miss? I guess it partly comes down to those who’ve played - or haven’t – but also to what we want from watching football. Technical analysis? Appreciation? Enjoyment without too many demands? Spectacle? A chance to criticise and moan? Excitement? Craic? Winning?
I’ve always liked to watch a mixture of football either as a committed fan or as an impartial observer. At Wolves the other night I tried to watch both teams and all twenty-eight players. I enjoy that but, in spite of my best intentions, I can't quite manage it when I’m watching Torquay. I often bump into an old football scout who’ll say things like “I saw your game last week and I thought their lad Smith ran the game, didn’t you?” I just look blankly but, at least, I try to avoid watching our games in too biased a fashion. I’m okay with people who admit – and understand - their own bias but I’m bemused by those who appear to genuinely believe all referees, the authorities, cheating opponents and Lady Luck are united in an unholy alliance against Torquay. They can't be serious, can they?
And what of the amount we watch our team? It’s great to read the reports of people who go to just about every away game but it was also nice to read Jon’s account of his unexpected trip to Alty as it’s often the scarcity of experiences which helps us enjoy them all the more. Over the last fifteen years I’ve probably watched 90% of home games and 50% of away games. There’s a few matches I’ve regretted missing – and occasionally visiting Plainmoor becomes too routine – but I’m happy with that level of spectating. What of others? Would you like to watch Torquay more? Or do you secretly wish it was a smaller league with less fixtures? How do you feel about watching games which don’t involve Torquay? How much do you watch football on the telly? Do you have a football satuation point? Where does football sit in relation to your interest in other sports?
Jon’s midweek surprise got me thinking about unlikely games we may have seen, intended or by accident. Budleigh’s Glentoran v Linfield excursion sounds like one of those when you’re in the area, there’s a match on and you’ve just got to go. Any unexpected matches to share? My favourite is going to Sydney in 1995 to watch cricket and ending up at a game between Japan and South Korea’s Olympic teams.
Then there are those who set out to watch an enormous amount of football. I've learnt how a regular diet of 55/60 matches a season can escalate – once you fall in with the wrong company and start watching below a certain level – into 80 or 100 games a year. That’s feeble for some people and this week I heard of someone who has already watched 250 games this season (spending the best part of £35,000 in the process). To get to that amount you do things like drive from Somerset to Carlisle for a midweek reserve game before dashing down the M6 for a night match at Leigh. Then you sleep in your car and do something similar the next day. Each to his own but, knowing this particular individual, it’s just a tick-box exercise which owes very little to a real interest in the game. Without context, soul - or quite possibly enjoyment - it’s almost an activity to be pitied rather than envied.
Ah, groundhopping. A topic for later in this thread perhaps....
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Post by chrish on Mar 14, 2009 11:00:04 GMT
I'm debating going to Griffin Park this afternoon for their game with Wycombe Wanderers and possibly a trip tomorrow to watch Club Brugge V KAA Gent. My foreign tasty beer stocks are running very low indeed  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 15, 2009 20:16:38 GMT
I have been meaning to reply to you post Barton, one I felt was worthy of getting plenty.
I have always watched all the football I could, I'm happy to be watching local park football as much as I am watching a league team, to me its all about the game itself.
There has been times when watching Ant over the years I had to question my sanity, watching on a day when I thought I would see Noah sailing past in his ark, or a day so bitterly cold my nuts really had frozen, but then he would justify it for me, by scoring some great goal that had me swelling up with pride.
Up until nine months ago(before the Fans Forum) I would watch nearly every game on TV, on winter weekends I may have watched up to six TV games, but they would have only been English ones. I'm not a lover of foreign football( don't let Rolf hear that ;D) as well as going to Plaimoor or watching a local game. I watch much less football on TV now as the forum comes first, unless it really is a game I would prefer not to miss.
Would I like a smaller season? well I do think since November it seems I'm up Plainmoor every week, but as I miss football so much during the summer, I would be happy to have it all year round.
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Mar 15, 2009 21:49:19 GMT
I've almost entirely ceased watching football on television (except for the odd BSP game).
I prefer to either watch local football (which I admit I have't done for a while) or read this website (and especially the numerous excellent postings of those that saw the players and the games that I would have loved to have seen that took place before my birth).
I try (like you Barton) to watch the matches in an unbiased way, but usually "follow the ball" than watch the movement and positioning of players in other areas of the pitch.
I hate seeing us lose - but am always less hurt to see us lose to an attractive footballing team with honest players.
To watch us give it a "good go", play some positive attacking football and show some teamwork is what I expect to see from a TUFC team. I'm realistic enough to know that we can't win 'em all and am very thankful that I wasn't born somewhere else to support a team in the Premiership that is so distant from the supporters that they might as well be playing on another planet.
I think my attendance at most home matches (other than being away for 8 months of last season and the tail-end of last football league season) and the selected away matches is about enough for me, although I'm always following the matches as we are playing wherever I am in the world.
I've made it to some quality random games over the last few years, from watching the amazing Cienciano of Cuzco defeat Alienza Lima, to Mostar in Bosnia and also happend to be in Barcelona when they were hosting AC Milan in 2004. I do enjoy the "novelty value" of visiting strange grounds (especially compared to the sterile venues that are sprouting-up all round the UK).
Often there are things that happen in a match that take me back to a match that I watched years ago.
Yesterday at the Barrow match I noticed that Brendan McGill was playing for Barrow and thought immediately of him playing (and scoring) for Carlisle back in the 4-1 win over then back in the last promotion season. I also recall that game as being one that was sponsored by friends of a departed supporter - I think that it was the same friends of the gentleman that passed-away in 2003 who sponsored the game yesterday (although huge apologies if I have got that wrong) - another fine win over Cumbrian opposition. Very co-incidental.........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 23:30:33 GMT
I've made it to some quality random games over the last few years, from watching the amazing Cienciano of Cuzco defeat Alienza Lima, to Mostar in Bosnia What's that then? The Peruvian league's 39th game? Is that where the idea came from... Yesterday at the Barrow match I noticed that Brendan McGill was playing for Barrow and thought immediately of him playing (and scoring) for Carlisle back in the 4-1 win over then back in the last promotion season. I also recall that game as being one that was sponsored by friends of a departed supporter - I think that it was the same friends of the gentleman that passed-away in 2003 who sponsored the game yesterday (although huge apologies if I have got that wrong) - another fine win over Cumbrian opposition. Very co-incidental......... Perfectly acceptable behaviour. Making quirky links between matches, players, clubs and incidents is all part of the fun in my book (although others may consider it a sign of lunacy). I enjoyed making the connection last season between seeing all of Michael Poke's appearances for us together with his debut for Southampton (as a second half sub at Wolves). Did anybody else manage that, eh? His mum maybe? Bet she didn't... Would I like a smaller season? well I do think since November it seems I'm up Plainmoor every week, but as I miss football so much during the summer, I would be happy to have it all year round. In which case how about the beer, food and football festival at Bovey in July? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2009 23:43:20 GMT
I wonder what they thought of the daft, soft buggers at Clipstone Welfare last night? Hopefully the badges sold well....  |
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 16, 2009 3:37:48 GMT
 He obviously doesn't have a wife and three kids to "bread win" for! Who recalls the way Trevor Pike and Conrad Sutcliffe used to carry on in the seventies? Did they ever take any genuine interest in the fortunes of our Western League team or was it a case of "ticking off" Shepton Mallett, Bradford On Avon and Wellington Town just for the sake of it. Dunno about collecting badges, it wouldn't surprise me if there isn't one of these obsessives rubbing his tent pole up and down in the confines of his bedroom at the sight of his growing collection of (removed) bottle tops from the "grounds" he has hopped to!  Trevor used to stand there with his clip board, I once asked him if he was taking orders for the half time sustenance or recording the number of eyelets on the players' boots. I don't really know just what there was about "grounds" like Wellington (a playing field with a rail around the pitch in all honesty) to record on a clipboard......................depth of slope from goal to goal, length of grass, straightness of lines maybe? There was a rudimentary pavilion housing the dressing rooms and a gaggle of (mostly empty) chairs under a tin roof if I remember correctly after all these years. I remember Phil Willer getting all excited over an "assessor" he once spied as we rolled up for one such game claiming that the guy was "following him around the Western League circuit" 'Don't worry Phil' I told him 'it's just another bloody lunatic!' 
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2009 19:35:53 GMT
He obviously doesn't have a wife and three kids to "bread win" for! It's not for me to comment on Mr Barmcake's personal affairs save to say his ex-wife still goes to the odd game with him and does his washing. There's probably plenty of need for a full cleaning service given how much he's sleeping in his car en route from places like Boghole Clough Celtic (match 241) to to a morning youth game at Scargill Miners Welfare (we'll support you ever more!). Bless him, he's not a bad old git really.... Who recalls the way Trevor Pike and Conrad Sutcliffe used to carry on in the seventies?Did they ever take any genuine interest in the fortunes of our Western League team or was it a case of "ticking off" Shepton Mallett, Bradford On Avon and Wellington Town just for the sake of it. I've a vague memory of hearing about two characters turning up at Devizes only to be greeted with a pithy welcome from Kenny Sandercock along the lines of "what the **** are you doing here?". Was that them? I don't really know just what there was about "grounds" like Wellington (a playing field with a rail around the pitch in all honesty) to record on a clipboard......................depth of slope from goal to goal, length of grass, straightness of lines maybe? There was a rudimentary pavilion housing the dressing rooms and a gaggle of (mostly empty) chairs under a tin roof if I remember correctly after all these years. Rail? It's a bloody rope alongside one touchline (and the chairs have gone). Apparently improvements have been in the pipeline.... |
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 16, 2009 19:58:39 GMT
There's probably plenty of need for a full cleaning service given how much he's sleeping in his car en route from places like Boghole Clough Celtic (match 241) to to a morning youth game at Scargill Miners Welfare (we'll support you ever more!). Bless him, he's not a bad old git really.... I've a vague memory of hearing about two characters turning up at Devizes only to be greeted with a pithy welcome from Kenny Sandercock along the lines of "what the **** are you doing here?". Was that them? I played a Sunday football match in North Manchester at somewhere that sounds remarkably like that, it was whilst I was up there working at the Commonwealth Games. It was certianly "something Clough" and it was a boghole ;D Perhaps Rattz could shed some light? ..................and yes, that does sound like the intrepid pair at Devizes! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2009 20:13:55 GMT
I played a Sunday football match in North Manchester at somewhere that sounds remarkably like that, it was whilst I was up there working at the Commonwealth Games. It was certianly "something Clough" and it was a boghole ;D Perhaps Rattz could shed some light? Boggart Hole Clough....near Blackley..... Fred Eyre's neck of the woods I think....must be nearly thirty years since he came out with Kicked Into Touch. |
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Post by andygulls on Mar 16, 2009 20:24:30 GMT
I've a vague memory of hearing about two characters turning up at Devizes only to be greeted with a pithy welcome from Kenny Sandercock along the lines of "what the **** are you doing here?". Was that them? No Barton, that was not them. That was myself and the late George Slater. We had opted to watch Dawlish play at Devizes. You will recall that we used to have an arrangement where our players returning from injury or not required would turn out for them in the Western League. I can also recall a quote from Derek Harrison as he came out to warm up at Clevedon (the old ground) "Bit back to the ******* basics" I'll perhaps add a bit more about my football watching history later. But I did know both Trevor and Conrad and watched a number of games with them as well. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 16, 2009 20:47:29 GMT
I played a Sunday football match in North Manchester at somewhere that sounds remarkably like that, it was whilst I was up there working at the Commonwealth Games. It was certianly "something Clough" and it was a boghole ;D Perhaps Rattz could shed some light? Boggart Hole Clough....near Blackley..... Fred Eyre's neck of the woods I think....must be nearly thirty years since he came out with Kicked Into Touch. That's the name of the place, thankyou Bartie you've got a fantastic memory! Fred Eyres! I got to chat to him once at Crewe Alexandra one Friday night. I can't quite recall when, but he was a really funny guy who everybody seemed to know and he was cuttingly cruel to Noel White (the old Liverpool director and Peter Swailes (the old chairman of Man City) who were also in the room that night. I think they had all been together at Altrincham by the way the conversation went. |
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 16, 2009 23:05:55 GMT
Fred Ayres... wonderful bloke. If you ever get a chance to read his book 'Kicked into Touch' do, it's marvellous. He holidays, or used to, once a year down in Cornwall. We corresponded for sometime as he was good friends with a friend of my father's and was always happy to chat.
On another subject that's come up here; I do some consultancy work for a large auction house and when I was in there last week I noticed a box of football bits, scrap books etc and had a good nose. The chap, who has since died, that had these filled in every game he went to in a notebook. Attendance, score, teams etc, you name it, it went into it, and when he first visited a ground he opened a new set of pages in a further scrap book, the first page he pasted a cover of the programme from that match, the second page all the details of it (as mentioned) and the last two or three pages he stuck in black and white pictures that he took of the ground from all angles. These go from the late fifties up to the seventies and are quite amazing. I'm hoping to either buy the lot or 'borrow' them and scan them. I'm not sure how many clubs he finally visited but from what i've seen there were quite a few. The other notebooks are also quite staggering, all the FA cup games for each year in a seperate book per year, meticulously written out with all the details from the qualifiers through to the final etc etc... He must've done little else! Pity the wife....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2009 7:46:45 GMT
No Barton, that was not them. That was myself and the late George Slater. We had opted to watch Dawlish play at Devizes. You will recall that we used to have an arrangement where our players returning from injury or not required would turn out for them in the Western League. I can also recall a quote from Derek Harrison as he came out to warm up at Clevedon (the old ground) "Bit back to the ******* basics" Just checked with the carbon dating team and they reckon that would have been 1974/75. Around the time Cloughie was taking an axe to Revie's desk. Or not. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2009 12:19:55 GMT
 246 Tuesday afternoon: Argyle Reserves v Bristol City Reserves 247 Tuesday evening: Uxbridge v Taunton Overnight: the car park at London Road, Peterborough 248 Wednesday afternoon: Peterborough Reserves v Colchester Reserves 249 Wednesday evening: to be decided 250 Thursday afternoon: Argyle Reserves v Bournemouth Reserves (at Tiverton) Friday night: Shoreham (I think) .....I hope he's eating properly. |
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