Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 22, 2009 11:23:22 GMT
The wording on poll one and two was different and I should have checked those polls and asked the same questions, but this poll is still about confidence so it should still give us an idea if things have changed.
Checking the results from poll one and two I got a big surprise with the results of poll two, I have put the results from both those polls below.
The questions in those polls were.
He is doing a good job
He is making to many mistakes
Need more time
Poll one results on 14th August 2008
Doing a good job = 60.5%
He is making to many mistakes =18.4%
Need more time =21%
Poll two on 7th September 2008
Doing a good job = 7%
He is making to many mistakes = 78.5%
Need more time =14.2%
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Post by Swanny on Feb 22, 2009 12:36:27 GMT
First, it's nice to read some another forum posters on this site as well, namely Fonda and Dave Pougher. It all adds to the variety of debate on this site.
I must admit I'm at the concerned stage. I remember recently dismissing the Southport defeat as a dodgy performance, and something all teams get in a long season. But I can't help thinking since the turn of the year our form has stuttered badly and is developing too much like last season. At least last season we had more points in the bag to get into the play-offs, all be it in poor form.
Our only recent wins have been against teams so poor that it is nothing to get excited about In fact 2 of last week's goals against Altrincham had a lot to do with poor goalkeeping and Benyon's persistence than anything else. And like last season we really struggle to score from open play.
I think Buckle's team selections have got all too predictable again. Earlier this season some different formations actually did work well e.g. 3-5-2, 4-3-3, 4-4-1-1, but we are now persisting with the same 4-4-2. And on the player front, some are being over-used and will just tire out by the end of the season like last season e.g. Hargreaves, Mansell, Nicholson. There just seems to be a lack of immagination again since the turn of the year from Buckle. For instance, you pretty much know who will get substituted each match i.e. a winger for a winger and an attacker for an attacker. Typically no change of formation during a match etc.
I do like to get entertained when I go to a match and it is players like Green, Carayol and Stevens who do just that. So I was most disappointed last week against Altrincham to learn that Green was not even on the subs bench and had not figured at all since his heroics against Coventry. In fact if it was not for the fact that I had just paid £16 to get in, I wanted to just walk out and go home. The point I am making is that odd decisions like that by Buckle and alledged fall out with players just irritates supporters like me who want to get value for money. Ultimately we the supporters pays Buckle's and the players wages so I think they have an obligation to provide us with some sort of value for money. And I would rather see exciting young talent who are learning their trade than boring functional football. So like Merse, I want to see more of your likes of Green and Carayol.
I have seen enough good quality play this season to know we are capable of reaching the play-offs. However our shooting on the deck is shocking barring Benyon and a lack of composure in front of goal. It's frustrating to out-play teams and lose and at the present rate we will struggle to get in the play-offs.
I think good results can return. And with a bit more immagination and tactical nous from Buckle things can improve again. It does seem strange that yesterday there was no midfielder (Adams) on the bench, and there have been similiar examples when there been no defenders on the bench etc. Buckle turned things around brilliantly earlier this season and I gave him full credit for that. Can Buckle do it again this season ? We will all know the answer come May and will find out a lot more about Buckle and the team.
For the record in the poll I voted "we might but will not go up". As you can gather recent results have given me significant doubts again.
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Post by aussie on Feb 22, 2009 14:38:39 GMT
He knows what happened! The light switch was flicked to the on position but the damn light didn`t come on. He can hardly say what he thinks in that position because its classed as finger pointing, that messes up your changing room and causes all sorts of chaos! He is in just he`s second season as a manager, a lot to learn yet, let him learn, let him build, then if he fails you can justify the criticism. Look at Burton took them ten years to get what they have got and they deserve it, Exeter built slowly but surely, how many shitty fans wanted the Cravat wearer out just before they went up? Yes it sucks and hurts at moment but if you want to go up get level first then build. We are getting level and steadying what was a sinking ship, now we build, patience people please!
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 22, 2009 15:14:55 GMT
I think it's quite reasonable for a club with our relative resources and proffesionalism to have a reasonable degree of expectancy in this league. Of course it's taken other clubs, in worse situations than ours, longer to gain promotion. But that's hardly the point. All that really matters is are we delivering a respectable level of performance compared to the advantages we enjoy. Few clubs in our division are as well run as ours. Few have a better set-up behind the scenes. Few have more disposable income seemingly. Despite the diminishing crowds, the consortium have still managed to provide the manager with the players he needed. When all things are considered and although some seem to find it uncomfortable to admit, we should absolutely be one of the clubs in this league to be feared. So are we performing to a suitable level? Because i believe we're entitled to expect more. Are we about 'par for the course'? Or are we under-performing? Because we certainly aren't excelling. Have we made the best of the situation we've found ourslves in?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 22, 2009 18:01:01 GMT
One thing I read into the posts on here, is that it is felt that given the resources Buckle has at our club, then we really should be doing much better than we are. Yet we all know that having good back up from the board a good background team and a squad made up of some very good players at this level, can't guarantee anything out on the pitch where it matters.
So the next question that has to be asked is, are we getting the training right, are we putting the best eleven out on the pitch, picked based on who we are playing, are the substitutions being made at the right time and are the players getting the correct motivation.
In order to maximize all what we see as extra resources, that other teams may not enjoy as much, we need to get the answers correct to all the questions asked above.
You would think that apart from fitness training, the team would be working on set pieces, due to so many poor shots being taken in games, then shooting practice must be taking up a good part of the training, but we had yet to see much evidence of that working.
I think most will agree that we have not always seem what we may feel is the best starting eleven in some recent matches, I like others felt as good as Benyon did in the last game, yesterdays game was not one he should have started.
On to substitutions, well they did seem yesterday to be made much later than was required and when they were made we then looked a better side for that game and the questions has been asked, should the team that finished, been the one that should have started the game.
Motivation, well yes the manager has a big part to play in this,we do keep hearing of some problems with this player or that player, I do know that Green is now well back in the fold and fully focused on doing the business for the team and lets hope Bucks can find a way to keep all our players happy, being on the fringe will make some players unhappy and that can't be denied. The players also have a big part to play in motivation and surely they want to win every game and must get themselves fired up for each game, if not then If I was the manager I would want to know why.
My view is that yes we have many good things in place to give Bucks the very best chance of going up. it really comes down now to getting the very best from every player and getting team selections spot on along with making substitutions at the right time. Get those all right and keep the players behind for some extra shooting practice and we will make the play-offs and then it will be a matter of trusting our luck, but do we really ever get our fair share of luck? or is it as some say, you need to make your own luck.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 22, 2009 19:01:29 GMT
I do find myself wondering what our training has done to previously highly regarded BSP players? Matt Green was pretty prolific at the end of last season at Oxford, but he's struggling to find the net for us. Wayne Carlisle was an important part of City's success last season (as we saw at close hand), but he can barely do a thing right for us. Thompson and Brough were captains of the respective teams last year, but one is out on loan and the other hardly plays. Have they all suddenly become bad players, or is what they're being taught on the training ground actually detrimental to what they can offer us?
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Feb 22, 2009 19:22:13 GMT
I do find myself wondering what our training has done to previously highly regarded BSP players? Matt Green was pretty prolific at the end of last season at Oxford, but he's struggling to find the net for us. Wayne Carlisle was an important part of City's success last season (as we saw at close hand), but he can barely do a thing right for us. Thompson and [glow=yellow,2,300]Brough[/glow] were captains of the respective teams last year, but one is out on loan and the other hardly plays. Have they all suddenly become bad players, or is what they're being taught on the training ground actually detrimental to what they can offer us? I see that Brough was voted NLP man of the match for Salisbury yesterday. So, to the best of my knowledge, that was his fourth game for them. It would be interesting to see how far his game has come on after a run of 4 games in a row. It will also be interesting to see what will happen with both Brough & Todd once their loans expire. Personally i can see Todd coming back and Brough staying for the rest of the season.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 22, 2009 19:51:55 GMT
Shane I really don't think the training is the problem and I will do a merse here and say part of the problem could well be down to the job the players are being asked to do by the manager.
The other point to consider is do the team selection and tactics used play to the strengths of such players as Green. Yes I have seen green miss a few one on ones, but no training would have made him miss, apart from a good goal he scored against Blackpool, how many real chance has he had.
I did not see the game yesterday so don't really know if he got any real chances in the game, but most the games I have seem him play in, he has always been running out wide to get the ball,When I have seen him more in the middle and a good ball played between defenders for him to run onto and toward goal, he has always Looked at his best. So maybe Bucks needs to get the team to play to our strikers real strenghts to get the best out of them.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 22, 2009 19:58:54 GMT
Shane I really don't think the training is the problem and I will do a merse here and say part of the problem could well be down to the job the players are being asked to do by the manager. The other point to consider is do the team selection and tactics used play to the strengths of such players as Green. Yes I have seem green miss a few one on ones, but no training would have made him miss, apart from a good goal he scored against Blackpool, how many real chance has he had. I did not see the game yesterday so don't really know if he got any real chances in the game, but most the games I have seem him play in, he has always been running out wide to get the ball,When I have seen him more in the middle and a good ball played between defenders for him to run onto and toward goal, he has always Looked at his best. So maybe Bucks needs to get the team to plat to our strikers real strenghts to get the best out of them. Oh i totally agree the most important aspect is how the players are being used on a match-day. Green has been criticised for his meagre return of goals, but if we're not creating chances, and he's spending most of the game running the channels, what chance has he got? He's never actually near the danger are if/when the ball arrives there. And Carlisle is playing a similar role to that he did at City, but obviously something about the way we play just doesn't suit him. The tactics come from the training ground, so why are we focussing on using these players in such a way as to negate their threat? Something is amiss. If you sign players on the basis of what you've seen them do elsewhere, why would you then ask them to do something completely different?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 22, 2009 20:08:29 GMT
I will leave that answer Shane for the likes of merse to answer, simply because it baffles me at times, we had a player here once who scored for fun before he joined us. Mr A. Williams, got a hat trick in his first game and then spent the rest of his time here never getting the service his game needed.
As a result he never gave us the return he had for Barry Town, only in one game near the end of the season when he came on around the 90 Min's mark, did he get two balls that was made for him and he scored both times in extra time. A case of the manager not setting out the team and tactic's to maximize what the players were best at, is that the case now?
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 22, 2009 20:35:00 GMT
I will leave that answer Shane for the likes of merse to answer, simply because it baffles me at times, we had a player here once who scored for fun before he joined us. Mr A. Williams, got a hat trick in his first game and then spent the rest of his time here never getting the service his game needed. As a result he never gave us the return he had for Barry Town, only in one game near the end of the season when he came on around the 90 Min's mark, did he get two balls that was made for him and he scored both times in extra time. A case of the manager not setting out the team and tactic's to maximize what the players were best at, is that the case now? Or was it? Eiffion told me that the biggest difficulty he faced during his time at Plainmoor was with Chris Brandon playing show pony and insisting on too many touches of the ball which caused Willo to either constantly check his runs or stray off side. He said there was a far more disciplined team at Barry who set their stall out almost exclusively to delivering the ball in the channels without dealy for him to run onto. Brandon used to drive Wes Saunders to distraction with his undisciplined play and once at Macclesfield, he hauled him off in the twentieth minute for some smart arsed remark he aimed at the manager after getting a bollocking. Shame really, because he came to Plainmoor recommended by Wes' brother in law, Dave Hodges who had seen him playing at Bradford Park Avenue after he had been released by Sheffield United. He became quite a favourite of the crowd whilst more conscientious players and those more disciplined in playing to a team pattern often got the ire of the crowd...................is it ever much different? Look at the adulation Danny Stephens gets in some quarters yet his influence on our affairs remains minimal, yet why do you think the current manager regularly prefers the derided Roscoe Dsane and Wayne Carlisle to carry out the instructions he lays down?
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Feb 22, 2009 22:22:51 GMT
Was that "Dave Hodges" the player we signed from Mansfield back in the 90/91 season, playing only a few games before being released early in the 91/92 season?
I found Brandon to be hugely frustrating - he could produce the sublime but sometimes his sulky behaviour was ridiculous. Many players that have passed through Plainmoor over the years failed to pull up any trees - unfortunately Brandon did - just not in the way we all hoped and it caused him to miss all but two games in an entire season!
I think that one of issues about the squad this season is that there is more depth than last season. With the exception of Zebroski, I think we have an all-round better group of players. Only Bevan, Mansell, Nicholson, Hargreaves and Sills have not been dropped for more than the odd game this season. I have quite often been baffled than particular players have come-in and performed excellently and then found themselves back on the bench for some time afterwards. At the same stage of the season last year, we had a much more formidable record - how that has occured with a better squad is not easy to answer.
I believe that for the Board to not back Bucks in every way that they can would be folly - we would have to pay-off the remaining time on his (and probably Shaun North), we would have to get a new manager to take-over running of the team at the stage of the season that still is very finely balanced. Whilst it has worked at Oxford, I think that they were left with little choice but to dispose of Paterson when they did. We are in a very different position.
I still think that it would represent a modest success if we managed to make it to the play-off final this season - it would be a small improvement on last season. An incrementalist approach to progression is a realistic strategy for a club in our position. If it is the case that we get to the PO final but lose, then I cannot see Bucks not being at the helm for another go at it next season, although it remains to be seen as to whether we would be able to bring-in the calibre of players over the summer that we need to continue to improve.
I definately believe that the form in the league since the Lewes game has been very concerning indeed if we are to win promotion this season, but Bucks managed to turn things around when it didn't look good for him earlier in the season. Any TUFC manager in the time I have been a supporter has always been 10 bad results away from the chop, however they have often been 6/7 good results from being hailed as a messiah by many of our fickle fans! Bucks is no different and as the season moves into the critical stage, I believe we all need to get behind him and the team - at least until the last kick of the season.
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Post by phipsy on Feb 22, 2009 23:48:02 GMT
if you didn,t think much of chris brandon while he was here, gawd help us. he was a wonderfully talented player and far too good for the likes of effion wiliams!
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 23, 2009 3:55:03 GMT
Was that "Dave Hodges" the player we signed from Mansfield back in the 90/91 season, playing only a few games before being released early in the 91/92 season? That's the guy......................he also played for Kettering later in his career as it happens. He was married to one of three sisters who ALL married Torquay United footballers, Wes Saunders and Matt Elliott being the others and then last I heard of him he was still landlord of a Bradford pub. He used to do a bit of scouting for Wes.
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 23, 2009 4:05:26 GMT
if you didn,t think much of chris brandon while he was here, gawd help us. he was a wonderfully talented player and far too good for the likes of effion wiliams! Well it's all about opinions isn't it...............and what one thinks constitutes "too good" - perhaps the problem was he shared your opinion of himself too. As I have stated before, the whole purpose of any type of formation, type of play; or system is to get he ball into the most advantageous place for your strikers the maximum amount of times in a match. Taking that on board, I am not a fan of faffing about doing twirlies and the like whilst the strikers don't know what you're going to do next! Talented, yes; but myopic and self focussed with it. I can think of other less well mannered and cultured "strikers" who would have taken him behind a shed at the back of the training ground and knocked seven bells out of him the way he used to self indulge at the expense of a very good (when fed correctly) striker to the extent that it cost OUR club big time. Both players eventually went on to be reasonably successful at a higher level and in Williams case, he left his next club (Hartlepool) with a fine reputation and a lot of respect from the club's supporters.
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