Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 21, 2023 0:22:18 GMT
... are due by the end of the month. Both Toklon and GI beat them to it. Toklon Group in a better place due to land sales. The related party transaction note is of some interest to us. This is from GI's accounts - same detail as in Toklon's.
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petef
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Post by petef on Mar 21, 2023 15:34:50 GMT
Thanks for the update Jon though the statement doesn't really mean an awful lot to me or many others I would imagine for that matter. Really needs a simplified explanation if you yourself understand it fully.
Unsure why these payments are owed or being paid. On the scale of things these are pretty small sums.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 22, 2023 0:07:35 GMT
Hi Pete.
Yes, these balances are pretty small in the scheme of things.
We will find the interesting stuff when TUFC Ltd’s accounts come out.
As you will know, although much of the local media does not, Torquay United is NOT owned by GI or by Toklon.
The club is majority owned by Riviera Stadium Ltd which is owned by Clarke Osborne personally not via GI.
Companies have to report on “related party transactions” - that is transactions between companies controlled by the same person.
GI, which is controlled by Clarke Osborne via Toklon, charged TUFC a management fee of £30k in 2020/21, but nothing in 2021/22. In addition, GI charged on expenses (i.e. costs incurred by GI but relating to TUFC) of £7,886 in 2021/22 compared to £4,315 the previous season.
Up until June 2021, cumulative fees and expenses had racked up to £99,662 unpaid.
That would have increased to 99662 + 7886 = 107548, but we must have paid off £41,514 of this to leave £66,034 still owing as at 30 June 2022.
This is effectively a trade creditor - that is monies owed for services provided.
It is not the same as the loan from RSL which was £3.6million on 30 June 2021 and on 31 March 2022.
We will find out whether that loan has increased in the three months to 30 June 2022 in a week or so when TUFC Ltd publish their accounts.
We will also find out whether the slowing in loan growth from the owner is due to greatly reduced losses or to debt being incurred elsewhere.
Riviera Stadium Limited, in addition to lending TUFC Ltd £3.6m, had lent £129k to GI, but GI repaid £110k of this in the year. No relevance to TUFC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 9:33:30 GMT
To quote Shakespeare then: “much ado about nothing.”
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Post by stig123 on Mar 22, 2023 21:12:27 GMT
If money go before all ways do lie open....W.S.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 8:30:30 GMT
If money go before all ways do lie open....W.S. You missed one of them comma things, which makes it sound less like gobbledygook. You would have thought that Shakespeare would have learnt to speak proper English. 🦦
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Post by stig123 on Mar 24, 2023 14:09:00 GMT
With apologies blindpew..I am guessing Shakespeare was thinking of Wrexham at the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 17:51:42 GMT
With apologies blindpew..I am guessing Shakespeare was thinking of Wrexham at the time. Should by any chance we (TUFC) have an almost Biblical resurgence, and the final game of the season against Wrexham actually means something (promotion or relegation or indeed both (😯)) then I think we can forgive Shakespeare on this occasion.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 30, 2023 23:59:11 GMT
It is not the same as the loan from RSL which was £3.6million on 30 June 2021 and on 31 March 2022. We will find out whether that loan has increased in the three months to 30 June 2022 in a week or so when TUFC Ltd publish their accounts. We will also find out whether the slowing in loan growth from the owner is due to greatly reduced losses or to debt being incurred elsewhere. Well the answer to that is a very emphatic "debt being incurred elsewhere". After 9 months with no increase in the debt to RSL, it suddenly grows by a whopping £670k in three months! Money lost in three months, or rejigging of who the money is owed to? In addition, "bank loans and overdrafts" up £301k to £643k. I had guessed that last year's balance, although stretching the definition of bank loan, was a Sport England Covid Loan. If so, it is disappointing if we have drawn on this so heavily in a season unaffected by covid. I can't think who else would advance such a sum as a "bank loan or overdraft". Answers on a postcard. More worrying still is that current liabilities have increased by £217k. So £670k from RSL + £301k other loans + £217k working capital to fund a loss of nearly £1.2m. Further than we have ever been from sustainability. Growing the overhead base whilst actively discouraging customers does not appear to be working well. Previous owners have funded losses incurred on their watch by writing off monies owed. Very worryingly, we now have a huge amount of debt other than that owed to the owner himself. That could be a blocker to anyone hoping to keep alive the 102-year-old-company. So many people have worked so hard to pull it through so many crises in all that time. Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
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petef
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Post by petef on Mar 31, 2023 13:16:58 GMT
People are finally waking up to the realities of the football clubs plight. None of us like change do we? Quite likely be in a totally different place now if there hade t been so much opposition to Osbourne's original plans though i guess we'll never know. No doubt his plan "B" has been running a good while now and its not looking great for the club. No savvy businessmen with zero interest in football would ever invest in a loss loser. Whatever he does will be in his business interests and not the football clubs . In any case he has given us a few extra years of existence as there were no other takers at the time of his intervention. At the end of the day and in reality we simply cannot afford to be playing at this level and hope to compete. As i have always maintained, eventually the club will find a level that is sustainable financially and that level im afraid will be nowhere near the football league
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Post by bomber on Mar 31, 2023 14:22:33 GMT
Begs the question, what are they actually spending the money on?
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Post by plainmoorpete on Mar 31, 2023 17:55:34 GMT
Begs the question, what are they actually spending the money on? Wages of playing and non-playing staff, rent, upkeep of facilities, other unavoidable expenses perhaps. No one is saying the money we are getting in is being wasted, Clarke Osborne is obviously not taking any out. The plain and simple fact is that the club is not self-sufficient and is living beyond its means, When that happens you either scale back your loses or go bust. The problem with scaling back though is you are likely to lose supporters and have even less money so you get sucked into a downward spiral.
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Post by stig123 on Mar 31, 2023 19:17:40 GMT
At the other end of the food chain Wrexham reported a loss of 3 million...although they did purchase the ground so it's a bit misleading. Also...an interesting article in the Guardian this week about the financial struggle of players outside the top tiers....nice photo of a Torquay player featured.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 31, 2023 23:32:27 GMT
Quite likely be in a totally different place now if there had not been so much opposition to Osbourne's original plans though i guess we'll never know. Sorry Pete, I don’t understand. What original plans were these? What opposition? How would things have been different? Better or worse?
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 31, 2023 23:35:18 GMT
At the other end of the food chain Wrexham reported a loss of 3 million...although they did purchase the ground so it's a bit misleading. Purchasing the ground is capital expenditure, not part of the loss.
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