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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2009 1:49:44 GMT
 Everywhere holds a memory and a story! A few lost non-league grounds for those who may live in the vicinity: Crystal Palace groundsApparently this is a 1950 shot of the Crystal Palace, home of those pre-WW1 cup finals. Casuals had played amateur league football there in the 1920s and Corinthians carried on using the grounds until the big fire in 1936. Old Boys games - including the Arthur Dunn Cup final - were still played at the Palace in the 1950s. The site was then cleared for the building of the athletics stadium - and national sports centre - in the 1960s. I've read Crystal Palace have used the athletics stadium for reserve games and - here's a confession - I saw a round of Superstars filmed there in 1974.  Dulwich HamletHamlet played at Champion Hill from 1931 to 1991. Dulwich, four times winners of the Amateur Cup, were a considerable force in the 1930s when Torquay twice played them away in the FA Cup. We won both times - by the odd goal - in front of crowds of 9,000 and 11,600. The biggest crowd at Champion Hill - 20,744 - was for the 1933 Amateur Cup final between Kingstonian and Stockton. The badly-decayed ground was cleared for a supermarket in the 1990s. The club now plays on a newer ground next door. I popped into the old place one Sunday morning in the 1980s when a game was in progress. My sole memory is of graffiti which read " The players deserve your praise not your criticism"  KingstonianThis is Kingstonian's old ground on Richmond Road, Kingston, where they played from just after WW1 until the late 1980s. The largest attendance was 11,000 for an Amateur Cup game against Bishop Auckland in the mid 1950s. Kingstonian moved to Kingsmeadow - where we played AFC Wimbledon last season - in 1989. The club has won both the FA Amateur Cup and FA Trophy.  NunheadNunhead, who played at Brown's Field on Ivydale Field SE15, were a major force in the amateur game until they went under after the outbreak of WW2. The biggest crowd was probably 10,000 for the visit of Dulwich Hamlet in 1920. The main stand burnt down in 1936 and it was downhill from then onwards. This 1974 picture shows the remains of a small section of terracing:  Tooting and Mitcham UnitedSandy Lane was used from around 1920 to 2002 when the club moved to a new ground at Imperial Fields, Morden (owned at the time by Ron Noades). A FA Cup game against Nottingham Forest in 1959 - a 2-2 draw in the season Forest won the trophy - attracted 14,300. However the biggest crowd - 17,000 - was for an Isthmian League championship decider against Dulwich Hamlet in 1960.  Taken from Football Grounds of London - Alex White & Bob Lilliman (Tempus Publishing) |
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Post by ealinggull on Jan 13, 2009 23:43:02 GMT
Barton
I used to play for a side who shared the original Dulwich Hamlet ground (mid/late '80s). Unfortunately we played nearly all our games on the A pitch behind the ground, which also had a great surface.
Under the main stand it was like the Highbury of non-league football with a beautiful marble entrance hall for players/VIPs/Press. Very enjoyable, if rather anachronistic, but a real shame to see it go.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2009 21:47:34 GMT
I made it to Plough Lane, it was in the autumn after they won the FA Cup, so I guess that is 1988? Plough-Lane obviously had some of the same sort of stands as some of the ones in the above photos. It still seems incredible to think that this stadium hosted top-flight football less than 20 years ago - it goes to show how much football has changed (and I don't mean that necessarily in a positive way!). It had real character - a hotch-potch of ramshackled stands - can't remember the attendance, but I bet it wasn't much more than 5/6k. There's some match photos from Plough Lane in the programme for our very first league visit there in 1978. The caption for the cover picture reads " Brentford's Salman passes back to goalkeeper Len Bond under pressure from Dave Bassett". Ron Noades was chairman at the time and the programme speaks of the recent departure of Allen Batsford (see Wealdstone thread) and the subsequent appointment of Dario Gradi. There's a testimonial coming up for 'keeper Dickie Guy - now president of AFC Wimbledon - and, in the team that day, was Terry Eames who would become AFC Wimbledon's first manager. We won 1-0 with a goal from Mike Green. Scroll down for a picture of the South Stand (thanks to White and Lilliman) taken in 1975 and a map of the area (note the nearby Wimbledon Stadium best known for dogs and speedway).     |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2009 21:43:25 GMT
...some fascinating photos of a derelict Fisher Athletic, The Mount (sometime home of Charlton for a season and the one that I found the correct layout for after months of study!), the old Woolwich Stadium, Erith and Belvedere after the fire, amongst others... As well as Arsenal's old Invicta Ground which is really interesting as there is still some of the old terracing in the back yards off Mineral Street. Good stuff. Never knew about... The Mount (Charlton Athletic Dec 1923-May 1924 - 12 league games). Usual home of Catford Southend FC. Charlton had plans to play there permanently but the move didn't work out. It's on the edge of Mountfield Park between Catford and Hither Green.  Woolwich Arsenal - Manor Gound 1893-1913 (London's first Football League venue). Record crowd: 32,850 in 1894.  Map showing proximity to Mineral Street, site of the Invicta Ground:  Erith and Belvedere under water....  Kerry Miller/Phil & Shirley Smith books. |
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Post by familystander on Jan 20, 2009 22:17:46 GMT
Barton I used to play for a side who shared the original Dulwich Hamlet ground (mid/late '80s). Unfortunately we played nearly all our games on the A pitch behind the ground, which also had a great surface. Under the main stand it was like the Highbury of non-league football with a beautiful marble entrance hall for players/VIPs/Press. Very enjoyable, if rather anachronistic, but a real shame to see it go. I too have happy memories of Dulwich Hamlet/ Champion Hill in the mid/ late 80's. As a student at Kings College Hospital we where fortunate to play at DHFC, although as was the case with Ealinggull, mainly on the second pitch. The ground itself was crumbling, although the mainstand was quite impressive, particularly the entrance. I remember an FA cup replay- Fisher Athletic 4th QR I think. Couldn't have been more than 2 or 3 years after the Bradford fire......All the rubbish under the very wooden construction was rather a distraction.....Fisher won. I always knew of them as a child. They beat Marine in the Amateur cup final in the 30's. 7-1 I think. Even before my father was born. Crosby in Merseyside, Marine's base is where I grew up. Anyway, it's a pleasure to be here at last! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2009 22:44:54 GMT
I always knew of them as a child. They beat Marine in the Amateur cup final in the 30's. 7-1 I think. Even before my father was born. Crosby in Merseyside, Marine's base is where I grew up. Ah, yes. the 1932 Amateur Cup final played at Upton Park... It's a sad confession but I've seen a Friday night reserve game at Marine. We sat in the new stand opened by Cherie Blair in 1999 (not that she was there that night). An unusual three-sided ground.... ....and Marine had a manager - Roly Howard - who was in charge for 33 years. And - on the South London theme - did anybody else see (or even play for) Torquay Grammar at The Den back in (I think) the late 1970s? It would have been against the Roan School from Greenwich in the national schools competition. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2009 12:06:30 GMT
The sewer running diagonally across the edge of Woolwich Arsenal's Plumstead ground is the Southern Outfall Sewer built by Joseph Bazalgette in the 1860s. This brought together several sewers at Deptford and ran towards the Thames at Erith.
Around this time the Local Board of Health in Torquay asked Bazalgette to look at the town's drainage system. In those days sewers ran into the sea where the Pavilion now stands, near Belgrave Road and at King's Drive. Bazalgette suggested either an "irrigation farm" at Goodrington or an outfall at Hope's Nose. The Hope's Nose idea was chosen - what would have happened to Goodrington in the other event? (even more of a stink over Clennon Valley no doubt) - with the system opening in 1878.
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 23, 2009 16:40:16 GMT
The layout of The Mount (Charlton Athletic) shown in Paul Smith's 'Ultimate Directory....' (as shown by Barton Downs above) is in fact incorrect.... I spent alot of time at The Mount when I lived down the road in Ladywell Village and my ex-wife's grandfather, who lived in Catford, told me about the ground and how the park was still there. He also explained the layout of it, having been to a game there himself, so I took some pictures and then using Multimap worked out how the original Catford ground had been banked and re orientated. I passed this info onto Paul but it was too late to put in the revised edition so we got it into Groundtastic magazine, a copy of which follows this (By the way, i'm obviously the Leigh mentioned in the article!)   |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2009 0:09:56 GMT
Budleigh, thanks for your postings on this and other threads. I had a sneaky feeling the football grounds of London would spark some interest but I never imagined just how much.
I see there's a mention of Charlton having plans for an 80,000 capacity at the Mount. That figure is amazing - how would they ever draw such a number? - and then you realise they once had 75,000 at The Valley. It's nearly thirty years since I've been to The Valley but I'm glad I stood on that enormous old East Bank.
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 24, 2009 7:19:08 GMT
It amazes me how many people have in interest in old grounds... Just look at the books on them now published and the success of Groundtastic magazine. I'm going to find my picture of the bit of terracing from the Invicta ground of Arsenal and pop it on here. It's not great as the Indian chap who lived in the house in whose garden it is in wouldn't let me in so I did it over a wall. It was so frustrating because i knocked on the garden gate and he opened it and there was this six steps of concrete terracing just there in front of me and he shut the gate in my face. I assume I wasn't the only one who told him his house was built on the goal mouth!When I lived in London I used to watch Charlton all the way through their exile and still try and go and see a game 3 or 4 times a year if possible, United games permitting...
I'll also put the ariel pic of the mount on here beacause, even after all these years, you can still pick out the dry bits of ground that appear to be where the pitch was, and from the air you can see how it could be so big...
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 25, 2009 9:43:18 GMT
This photo shows the position of the Charlton ground at The Mount, the 'footballer' is near enough on what I believe was the centre circle and if you look carefully you can make out the dimensions of a pitch in the dried grass. The banking at the top right was where the terracing was. The Catford ground, as seen in the map previously, was in the corner but was built up when the new ground was set up and so has a large bank through it, but if you look closely you can see a curved path in the bottom left hand, this was the corner of the catford pitch. It's difficult to see how this works without visiting but i'll pop a picture on in a sec showing the view from the top of the terracing looking down on the Charlton pitch, and across to where the catford ground was...  |
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 25, 2009 9:48:08 GMT
This picture shows the view from the top of the banked terracing built up when Charlton moved to the ground and is a view across the pitch from the top goal, the Catford ground was at the far end but lower as originally this bit of ground swept down to it and wasn't banked up...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2009 13:14:15 GMT
Budleigh, I need to find an excuse to investigate this place in person some time. Here it is relative to the old dog track at Catford:  A few South London loose-ends to tie up - but not neccessarily lost grounds - starting with Sutton United who we were discussing at yesterday's game. We agreed Coventry won the FA Cup in 1987, started their defence against Torquay in 1988 and lost to Sutton in 1989 who - in turn - played us the next season. Not seeing our game at Gander Green Lane is a regret but it would be on the list if one of the job applications works out. A 1976 picture from White and Lilliman:  During one of our previous runs to the FA Cup 4th round we played Sutton's neighbours Carshalton Athletic at Plainmoor. Carshalton play at the War Memorial Ground. This picture - from the same publication - shows a structure that is reputed to be the former jockey stand at Epsom:  Bromley is another club to have visited Plainmoor in the FA Cup. A major amateur force in the 1940s and 1950s, Bromley have made a comeback in recent years by reaching Conference South. I visited Hayes Lane for an FA Cup game when I lived in Swanley in the early 1980s. Here's a 1973 picture:  I've also seen football at Imber Court, home of the Metropolitan Police. When I visited they were playing in blue - with a narky little midfielder called Sargeant - and ran out to the tune of I Fought the Law. It's actually a good place to watch football. I've also attempted to look over the wall of the Fisher Athletic stadium at Surrey Docks. Unfortunately it did involve getting some of that non-drying paint on my hands so it wasn't a particularly successful attempt. Fisher are a curiosity - they've played in the Conference remember - starting life in Bermondsey as the John Fisher Catholic Society. They later moved miles away to Mitcham before moving to Surrey Docks in the 1980s. The club is currently struggling in Conference South and playing home games at Dulwich Hamlet amidst uncertainty about its future. Surrey Docks:  Another south of the Thames club which has played in the Conference - for fourteen seasons - is Welling United which plays at Park View, one-time home of both Bexleyheath & Welling and Bexley United. I guess it's the sort of club Torquay could play if we remain in the BSP for a while. Clubs we won't be playing are two which didn't make it past the early days of professional football in London: Croydon Common (which played at The Nest, next to Selhurst station, later home to Crystal Palace for a while) and Southern United, short-lived flops which played somewhere in Nunhead. |
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Post by ospelgull on Jan 27, 2009 7:35:30 GMT
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Post by Budleigh on Jan 27, 2009 7:55:31 GMT
This is a similar view of Fisher's Ground last year showing how it's already looking forlorn and derelict...  |
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