timbo
Programmes Room Manager 
QUO fan 4life.
Posts: 2,432
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Post by timbo on Feb 9, 2021 11:14:19 GMT
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timbo
Programmes Room Manager
QUO fan 4life.
Posts: 2,432
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Post by timbo on Feb 9, 2021 12:56:28 GMT
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Jon
Admin
Posts: 6,841
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Post by Jon on Feb 9, 2021 19:12:54 GMT
Thanks Timbo for this and linking to the profile.
Long before my time, so I can only go on the stats. Missed just three games in the two finest seasons our club has ever had 1955-57.
Maybe Stewart can share some memories?
Love the hobbies - football then football. That love for the game led to a lifetime doing what he loved. He was the man who tipped Fergie off about Lee Sharpe.
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Post by plainmoorpete on Feb 10, 2021 15:59:32 GMT
Has our club marked his passing in anyway? This guy was a true pioneer and we should be proud to acknowledge his link to us.
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timbo
Programmes Room Manager
QUO fan 4life.
Posts: 2,432
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Post by timbo on Feb 10, 2021 22:57:32 GMT
Has our club marked his passing in anyway? This guy was a true pioneer and we should be proud to acknowledge his link to us. There is a message on the BBC link. Also on official site. |
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Post by stewart on Feb 11, 2021 13:58:56 GMT
Long before my time, so I can only go on the stats. Missed just three games in the two finest seasons our club has ever had 1955-57. Maybe Stewart can share some memories? Bearing in mind that I was only nine, then ten, during those two seasons, I can only provide some hazy recollections of Tony Collins, particularly as my attention was always focused on his namesake, whose clinical accuracy and positional sense fascinated me even during those early years. However, I can recall this willowy figure flying down the left wing with exceptional pace and delivering pinpoint crosses for Sam and Harold Dobbie. He always seemed to run within a yard of the touchline, rather like the great Peter Thompson of Liverpool used to do. He also built up a great understanding with Don Mills. In my estimation, he was the club's greatest ever left winger, including Ernie Pym and Tony Scott. I didn't know about his connection with Lee Sharpe, but I would say that TC had an even greater impact, given that Sharpe came and went in a flash. I'm not sure about his missing only three games, as he played 39 games (out of 46) in the first season and was an ever present in the second. He also played in all seven FA Cup matches. Wikipedia are usually reliable with these kinds of stats, but their figures of 89 apps and 17 goals are incorrect, and should read 85 & 16, at least according to my own records. Perhaps they have mixed up some of the matches played by Tony and Sam?! I count myself as being extremely fortunate to be old enough to have witnessed many of the matches during those two seasons, which as you say were among the finest in the club's history. Only the "Stubbs years" surpass them in my mind. Thanks for the memories, Tony Collins, and rest in peace. |
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Jon
Admin
Posts: 6,841
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Post by Jon on Feb 11, 2021 23:59:46 GMT
Bearing in mind that I was only nine, then ten, during those two seasons, I can only provide some hazy recollections of Tony Collins, particularly as my attention was always focused on his namesake, whose clinical accuracy and positional sense fascinated me even during those early years. However, I can recall this willowy figure flying down the left wing with exceptional pace and delivering pinpoint crosses for Sam and Harold Dobbie. He always seemed to run within a yard of the touchline, rather like the great Peter Thompson of Liverpool used to do. He also built up a great understanding with Don Mills. In my estimation, he was the club's greatest ever left winger, including Ernie Pym and Tony Scott. I didn't know about his connection with Lee Sharpe, but I would say that TC had an even greater impact, given that Sharpe came and went in a flash. I'm not sure about his missing only three games, as he played 39 games (out of 46) in the first season and was an ever present in the second. He also played in all seven FA Cup matches. Wikipedia are usually reliable with these kinds of stats, but their figures of 89 apps and 17 goals are incorrect, and should read 85 & 16, at least according to my own records. Perhaps they have mixed up some of the matches played by Tony and Sam?! I count myself as being extremely fortunate to be old enough to have witnessed many of the matches during those two seasons, which as you say were among the finest in the club's history. Only the "Stubbs years" surpass them in my mind. Thanks for the memories, Tony Collins, and rest in peace. How nice to have a sensible conversation about great left wingers. Hugh Cameron of the £500 team might be another candidate. You didn't get your stats from the Official Centenary History, did you? Some dodgy characters involved in that book! Tony Collins missed games on 2/4/56 (replaced by Graham Bond) 7/4/56 and 14/4/56 (both replaced by Harold Dobbie). He then returned for the last four games of the season to make 43 league appearances out of 46. The Official Centenary wrongly shows Dobbie at 11 for the last four games so overstates Dobbie by four appearances and understates Tony Collins by four. I agree with you on 16 league goals not 17 though. The most accurate list of TUFC appearances you will find (up to the end of last season) is here: torquayfansforum.co.uk/thread/12807/appearance-stats-1921-7-20This corrects many of the errors in the Official Centenary History. |
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Post by stewart on Feb 12, 2021 0:51:33 GMT
Bearing in mind that I was only nine, then ten, during those two seasons, I can only provide some hazy recollections of Tony Collins, particularly as my attention was always focused on his namesake, whose clinical accuracy and positional sense fascinated me even during those early years. However, I can recall this willowy figure flying down the left wing with exceptional pace and delivering pinpoint crosses for Sam and Harold Dobbie. He always seemed to run within a yard of the touchline, rather like the great Peter Thompson of Liverpool used to do. He also built up a great understanding with Don Mills. In my estimation, he was the club's greatest ever left winger, including Ernie Pym and Tony Scott. I didn't know about his connection with Lee Sharpe, but I would say that TC had an even greater impact, given that Sharpe came and went in a flash. I'm not sure about his missing only three games, as he played 39 games (out of 46) in the first season and was an ever present in the second. He also played in all seven FA Cup matches. Wikipedia are usually reliable with these kinds of stats, but their figures of 89 apps and 17 goals are incorrect, and should read 85 & 16, at least according to my own records. Perhaps they have mixed up some of the matches played by Tony and Sam?! I count myself as being extremely fortunate to be old enough to have witnessed many of the matches during those two seasons, which as you say were among the finest in the club's history. Only the "Stubbs years" surpass them in my mind. Thanks for the memories, Tony Collins, and rest in peace. How nice to have a sensible conversation about great left wingers. Hugh Cameron of the £500 team might be another candidate. You didn't get your stats from the Official Centenary History, did you? Some dodgy characters involved in that book! Tony Collins missed games on 2/4/56 (replaced by Graham Bond) 7/4/56 and 14/4/56 (both replaced by Harold Dobbie). He then returned for the last four games of the season to make 43 league appearances out of 46. The Official Centenary wrongly shows Dobbie at 11 for the last four games so overstates Dobbie by four appearances and understates Tony Collins by four. I agree with you on 16 league goals not 17 though. The most accurate list of TUFC appearances you will find (up to the end of last season) is here: torquayfansforum.co.uk/thread/12807/appearance-stats-1921-7-20This corrects many of the errors in the Official Centenary History. I actually started keeping my own records in the promotion season of 1959/60, so I'm fairly confident that all of my statistics since then are correct. I really can't remember where I found all the earlier ones (including pre-war), but they certainly weren't from the Official Centenary History, which I have never seen. At one time years ago I had a publication called "The Definitive History", so perhaps that was the source, but I'm not sure. It's rather strange that two different histories have made the same mistake. Your spreadsheet via the link is an amazing piece of work which, again, I have never previously seen. I can see myself going through it in its entirety to check my own figures! It prompts me to ask, where did you find the Dobbie/Collins error and what source have you used to construct such a monumental compilation? It's probably just as well that our friend from the Swiss mountains (AJ) appears to have departed the scene. Any reference to "great left wingers" would undoubtedly have started him off on another of his rants about militants attempting to infiltrate football clubs! |
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Jon
Admin
Posts: 6,841
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Post by Jon on Feb 13, 2021 16:48:58 GMT
I actually started keeping my own records in the promotion season of 1959/60, so I'm fairly confident that all of my statistics since then are correct. I really can't remember where I found all the earlier ones (including pre-war), but they certainly weren't from the Official Centenary History, which I have never seen. At one time years ago I had a publication called "The Definitive History", so perhaps that was the source, but I'm not sure. It's rather strange that two different histories have made the same mistake. Your spreadsheet via the link is an amazing piece of work which, again, I have never previously seen. I can see myself going through it in its entirety to check my own figures! It prompts me to ask, where did you find the Dobbie/Collins error and what source have you used to construct such a monumental compilation? The Definitive History was put together by Leigh Edwards. He used the same appearance grids for the Official Centenary History a few years later - so that explains why there are the same errors in both. A few errors - but not many - were found and corrected between the two. You often read the same wrong history in so many places you think it must be true - but they are all copied from the same wrong source. That's why historians stress the need to quote sources. Original research is a lot rarer than regurgitation of past errors. Thankfully the emergence of online archives has seen a recent boom in new proper research - correcting many oft-repeated inaccuracies. I will gladly share my workings so you can check against yours - you may find errors in mine. Will send you a private message. The best place for thoroughly researched info on Football League teams is the English National Football Archive. www.enfa.co.uk/You can do limited searches, but a subscription is payable for full access. I have done a lot of work with them comparing TUFC data and correcting errors - sometimes in their data sometimes in mine. That only covers Football League years. For 2007-2009 and 2014-date I have used various resources. My current favourite is Soccerway: uk.soccerway.com/teams/england/torquay-united-fc/727/squad/They do cover down to National League North / South whereas Soccerbase does not. I have pulled together the years 1921-27 and 1939-46 myself with a little help from John Lovis and the late Jack Rollin on the war years. |
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