Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Dec 29, 2008 12:00:17 GMT
Now this is noway an anti Buckle post, but one asking an important question and that is should Green have featured from the start of this season.
I was very vocal in my posts after the first six games or so, about the fact that Bucks was in my view, just trying to many experiments with the team. The main one was playing Hargreaves in the defense, one that did not work out. My view was that the preseason games should have been the proper time to experiment and not in league games, where points are needed to be won.
The idea of playing better midfield ball players in defensive positions is not a bad one, Hodges has gone into defense and has really grown in that position, after a not so good start there.It was clear to many fans that Hargreaves was not a defender and plays his best for us in the midfield role, that he has always played.
When results were not going our way, we then saw a number of games where Sills was upfront on his own and Thompson was sat in behind him. To be fair while it seemed a strange way to want to play, even more so at home games, it was working for a while. I don't really know what happened to make Bucks change his mind and scrape this system, but I did think Thompson had a couple of poor games and that may well be the reason.
Now at last Green has been given a chance, you can see is real strengths, he holds the ball up well, can hold of defenders well and has real pace to burn.Yes some balls up to him, come off him, maybe a mis control or just a heavy touch, but you see the same thing happen to top strikers playing a much higher level of football than the players in the BSP.
The view is he needs games to get his confidence and shooting boots working correctly and a good run in the side will we hope help both those two things. I do agree that Sills drops a bit deeper playing with Green, but that maybe what Bucks has said he wants to happen, to help cover the midfield, when Green is the furtherest forward player.
My real question is why was not Green played from the very start of the season? he is in my view the best one to play with Sills, if he had been given the time he should have been given at the start of the season, we would not all be now saying halfway through the season, that he just needs games now.
I believe that had he got that chance, he would be our top scorer and be banging in goals most games now, in a poll on here at the start of this season, I put him down to be this seasons top scorer. He may well not be able to to that now, due to not getting games in the first half of the season, but I'm convinced that given a proper chance he will add plenty of goals to his totals, as long as Bucks sticks with him.
|
|
sam
TFF member
Posts: 341
|
Post by sam on Dec 29, 2008 12:41:32 GMT
Not sure about this Dave. I was not the only one around me in the grand stand who wanted Green off yesterday much earlier. He seems to me to be a light weight, touches were poor, chances missed etc. Would have much preferred Phillips but he's gone now. Benyon should have come on much sooner. I am not anti Buckle but I dont think he got it right against Kiddy at all. Green just doesnt inspire confidence and seems more of a substitute pacey impact player.
|
|
|
|
Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Dec 29, 2008 12:42:51 GMT
I believe that this is 'one of those debates' that could run and run!
Dave, I take the view that the foundation of our run is down to us putting Tyrone T up to support Sills. that resulted in us being so solid that we started to gain points and move up the table. In-turn I feel that this gave us a winning mentality and allowed us to go from grinding-out results to really raising the all-round performances.
I don’t want to be critical of Green as he is a promising young striker, but I don’t think he would have added to the team in the same way TT did.
That said, I think that Green should continue to improve and will be an important player in the second half of the season.
|
|
merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
|
Post by merse on Dec 29, 2008 13:42:34 GMT
My real question is why was not Green played from the very start of the season?  My understanding is that his personal fitness levels when he arrived were inferior to those generally considered acceptable at OUR club and that he was playing "catch up". The type of game the lad plays, fitness and speed off the mark are the optimum requirements (it's the same for Dsane) and without them he is rendered toothless. |
|
petef
Match Room Manager
Posts: 4,626
|
Post by petef on Dec 29, 2008 15:10:35 GMT
There is no question IMHO that Green is a great prospect and needs to be given a decent run. He will score goals.He holds up the play and shields the ball well and has good close control. I think he scored 11 in 16 for Oxford at the end of last season as yet he hasn't found his shooting boots but I thought his contribution and work rate was excellent yesterday the only criticism being his shooting and should maybe have fed Carlisle in the box for a better chance on goal in the first half.
Lets not get on the guys back he just hasn't yet had a decent run of games and I guarantee when he starts hitting the net he will get shed loads.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2008 15:15:04 GMT
Green looked a very decent player in our pre season games but I don't think we kept him on for the full 90 minutes (at least in the games that I saw) and on each occasion a sizeable ice pack was attached to his leg within moments of him departing the pitch.
Questions regarding possible injuries he hadn't fully recovered from started resurfacing from Oxford.
A less than fully fit Green wouldn't have done himself justice in an already struggling early season team. He's now looking fitter & happier & has earned his chance. He'll obviously now need to provide the performances to maintain his place in the side.
|
|
|
|
Post by scottbrehaut on Dec 29, 2008 15:22:16 GMT
I suppose the question is, can we afford to play a striker who is not able to hit the back of the net and waste chance after chance at the moment?
Given our current position in the league, and Burton seemingly running away with the title (I know there is a long way to go, but we all said that last season and Aldershot just continued to fly away), I think we need to play people who are going to bury the chances when they have them. There is nothing worse than seeing loads of chances go begging, as was the case yesterday, and then to see the game lost by the other team having their one shot on target go in.
I also appreciate that we are not going to win every game, and it is a fool who thinks we will - but there is nothing wrong with instilling that mentality into the players.
We are 10 points off the league leaders, we have to play them twice yet this season, and they are one of the few teams to have done the "double" over us last season. It would be a brave man to automatically think that we will win both those games, given last seasons record against them.
We have to work hard, grind out the results, and hope that results around us are favourable - they havent been recently, and certainly werent yesterday. Heres hoping for a loss for Burton tonight.
In conclusion, I dont mind who starts for us up front, as long as they are able to put away the chances they have - in the position we are in we cannot afford to carry anybody - and certianly do not have the luxury of carrying a striker who cannot hit the back of the net at the moment.
Its time like this I am glad I am not a manager!!
|
|
|
|
Post by jmgull on Dec 29, 2008 18:01:23 GMT
One of the (maybe unseen by some) positives Green gives us over others up top, is his ability to create space in the middle of the oppositions defence for his team mates.
His pace and power really worries defences at this level, his hard and intelligent running of the channels normally occupies both the full back and pulls one of the centre halves out of position.
It was no suprise yesterday to see Wroe and Hargreaves have several shooting chances from the edge of the box.
Green may not be scoring many but i believe the team will create more chances with him in the side....
I heard a similair thing to merse re Greens fitness at the start of the season.
I also heard that Bucks was keen to send him out on loan recently, a move that was vetoed by Colin Lee who apparently told Bucks he had to work with him.
....Maybe these "kicks up the arses" for him and Woods have served their purpose.
|
|
Rob
TFF member
Posts: 3,607
Favourite Player: Asa Hall
|
Post by Rob on Dec 29, 2008 22:39:14 GMT
Mind you, I'd think the last thing Green needs now is a kick up the arse. More an arm around the shoulder. He didn't seem to kick on in confidence from his goal at Weymouth and I can see him becoming more of a talking point in terms of what else he offers - we've got Sills for that - if he doesn't either score from point blank soon or get loaned out somewhere else to do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by aussie on Dec 30, 2008 9:56:03 GMT
Dave mate sorry I can`t agree with you on this one Green is very poor, not being funny or anything but missing so many easy finishes is not going to do anything for his confidence, a goal scorer with is what a striker is should be able to do his job i.e. score the easy ones, doesn`t matter if your having a bad day at the office or not you completely fluff 3 sitters. You expect that kind of form from Sunday league div.2 not from so called professionals! Also this thing about match fitness or being sharp applies to the harder shots or more complex maneuvers, not missing open nets or not being able to take a goal keeper on, the spectacular efforts go in more often with match practice the basics should always be there or your simply not good enough. I think he should do the right thing and offer last weeks wages back to the club and learn how to shoot. Elliot doesn`t feature all the time and can finish very well indeed so this excuse everyone kops out to is not cutting it with me I`m affraid!
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Dec 30, 2008 10:11:21 GMT
aussie, I can see your view points and understand where you are coming from, Green is a good player and I would not go as far to say the shots he missed were sitters.
Benyon has shown he knows where the goal is and that can't be denied, but a fit and confident Green will add far more to the whole game. Lets see if he gets a good run and then judge him after a few more games. How many times do top strikers go through patches when they can't score for love or money. Then they get a gaol and they can't then miss. I think he is well worth sticking with for now, time will tell.
|
|
|
|
Post by aussie on Dec 30, 2008 10:21:56 GMT
How the hell can anyone gain confidence from cocking up so many chances? I`d give him one more game and then thats it, 2 goals all season isn`t it?
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Dec 30, 2008 10:31:06 GMT
How the hell can anyone gain confidence from cocking up so many chances? I`d give him one more game and then thats it, 2 goals all season isn`t it? Lets be fair, he has not really had any starts and even the very best players need time to form partnerships and deliver what they really are capable off. You may well be proved right, but every player deserves a fair crack of the whip and Green is one such player. He could well go on to earn our club a big transfer fee, we could also let him go and watch as he gets his form back elsewhere and start banging in the goals, while we sit and regret not giving him a proper chance to show what everyone knows he has to offer. |
|
