Jon
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Post by Jon on Oct 11, 2015 21:40:30 GMT
It has always annoyed me that most people tend to judge managers purely on results without taking into account resources made available to achieve those results. Paul Cox has an impressive cv on a results only basis. Two promotions and nearly a third in six seasons at Eastwood. Conference play-offs, promotion and Football League consolidation in three full seasons at Mansfield. Great stuff. Not so good when you look at the finances. Company results are now available for free here: beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/In Eastwood's first season back in the Northern Premier, they racked up a loss of £108,432 in the y/e 30/6/08. Small beer for a pro club, but not for little Eastwood. We then lose all visibility of the next seven months' trading as Eastwood Town Football Club Limited was wound up and the assets transferred to Eastwood Town FC Limited on 30/1/09. In the eleven months to 31/12/09, the new company racked up a loss of £215,022, in the twelve months to 31/12/10 a loss of £244,444 and in the five months to 31/5/11 a further loss of £105,578. At this point, Paul Cox jumped ship. In six years, the club had run up losses of £678,516 plus whatever they managed to lose in the unreported seven months. Not much for a big professional club but fatal for a little club like Eastwood. After Cox's escape, the irreparably damaged club managed to limp on for two and a half seasons - relegated twice back to where Cox had found them - before the club was wound up during the 2013/14 season. Meanwhile, Cox went on to further success at Mansfield. Season 2011/2012 saw a loss of £1,045,936, season 2012/13 a loss of £1,184,433, season 2013/14 a loss of £721,146. That comes to £2,951,515 in three years. It was reported that Mansfield cut the playing budget for 2014/15 in an effort to reduce losses. Paul Cox bailed out in the November. I was cautiously optimistic when Cox was appointed at Torquay but maybe quite a bit more cautiously than most. When I picked up my season ticket, Breedy asked me what I think he thought was a rhetorical question "What do you think of our new manager?". "Well he has got no history of working to a budget" was my answer - which didn't go down too well. A good job I didn't say "He has no record of working for a football club that is run in anything like a sustainable manner". To be honest, I was quite enjoying reading people who had spent all their time spinning everything the club did negatively suddenly start to spin everything the club did positively. I didn't want to be the misery banging on about whether Cox was as inspired an appointment as he seemed at face value. Maybe he would change the habit of a lifetime and produce a competitive team on a low budget. Or maybe not. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 11, 2015 23:11:08 GMT
Some fascinating research there, Jon. Promotions on the cv will always be encouraging, but looking behind them is always worthwhile.
He obviously doesn't drive his Aston Martin any more if he still owns it, either, from what I've read.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 3:36:28 GMT
I still remember what Sam Allardyce said about managing the big teams, when he said he would win things if he was at Real Madrid or Barca. I know he got somewhat ridiculed at the time but he made a fair point in my opinion; success at a club with limitless funds is a lot easier than success within a budget.
'Big Sam' may have an inflated opinion of his managerial prowess but he has proved that he can manage well on a budget. It would have been interesting to see him at Chelsea or Man City, where I think he would have done well. There are those that say there is still pressure at a rich club, which is true of course, but pressure in all guises comes with the turf at any level in football.
It would appear that Cox delivered success when financially supported. Unfortunately, it also looks as though the cost exceeded the return in his case. I wonder if anyone at the club did a Jon-type analysis of Cox's record before they took him on?
I suspect not.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 26, 2017 11:02:17 GMT
It has always annoyed me that most people tend to judge managers purely on results without taking into account resources made available to achieve those results. Paul Cox has an impressive cv on a results only basis. Two promotions and nearly a third in six seasons at Eastwood. Conference play-offs, promotion and Football League consolidation in three full seasons at Mansfield. Great stuff. Not so good when you look at the finances. Company results are now available for free here: beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/In Eastwood's first season back in the Northern Premier, they racked up a loss of £108,432 in the y/e 30/6/08. Small beer for a pro club, but not for little Eastwood. We then lose all visibility of the next seven months' trading as Eastwood Town Football Club Limited was wound up and the assets transferred to Eastwood Town FC Limited on 30/1/09. In the eleven months to 31/12/09, the new company racked up a loss of £215,022, in the twelve months to 31/12/10 a loss of £244,444 and in the five months to 31/5/11 a further loss of £105,578. At this point, Paul Cox jumped ship. In six years, the club had run up losses of £678,516 plus whatever they managed to lose in the unreported seven months. Not much for a big professional club but fatal for a little club like Eastwood. After Cox's escape, the irreparably damaged club managed to limp on for two and a half seasons - relegated twice back to where Cox had found them - before the club was wound up during the 2013/14 season. Meanwhile, Cox went on to further success at Mansfield. Season 2011/2012 saw a loss of £1,045,936, season 2012/13 a loss of £1,184,433, season 2013/14 a loss of £721,146. That comes to £2,951,515 in three years. It was reported that Mansfield cut the playing budget for 2014/15 in an effort to reduce losses. Paul Cox bailed out in the November. I was cautiously optimistic when Cox was appointed at Torquay but maybe quite a bit more cautiously than most. When I picked up my season ticket, Breedy asked me what I think he thought was a rhetorical question "What do you think of our new manager?". "Well he has got no history of working to a budget" was my answer - which didn't go down too well. A good job I didn't say "He has no record of working for a football club that is run in anything like a sustainable manner". To be honest, I was quite enjoying reading people who had spent all their time spinning everything the club did negatively suddenly start to spin everything the club did positively. I didn't want to be the misery banging on about whether Cox was as inspired an appointment as he seemed at face value. Maybe he would change the habit of a lifetime and produce a competitive team on a low budget. Or maybe not. Time for an update on this one. Cox reverted to type after leaving Torquay and followed the money to Barrow where a new American Chairman was flashing the cash. In Cox's first season 2015-16, Barrow Bluebirds Limited (the company running Barrow AFC) posted a loss of £990,774. No figures for 2016/17 available yet, but on 31 May 2017 the Chairman injected a further £2.5m of share capital - taking the total to £3.1m. I would imagine that the loss in 2016/17 was well over a million - and Cox could not even produce a play-off place on that! In fairness to Chairman Casson, he has converted his loans to share capital - effectively leaving the club debt-free - just as Thea Bristow did with us. Beware owners who do not inject any share capital at all, but just "lend" money to the club - particularly if they attempt to secure the debt against a freehold!!! No surprise though that Casson cannot continue to fund the club to that extent. No surprise that Cox jumps ship as soon as the bottomless pit finds a bottom - just as he did at Mansfield. As I said above of Cox: "He has no record of working for a football club that is run in anything like a sustainable manner". |
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petef
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Post by petef on Aug 30, 2017 11:28:41 GMT
Some interesting facts and figures there Jon.
Cox is no fool and for sure is under no illusion that success at a football club such as ours will cost money.
We have all witnessed the results of scrimping along as bottom feeders over the last few seasons.
Little money invested in the playing squad usually means failure and struggle and Cox's approach to management makes a great deal of sense.
If your given a job to do without the necessary tools then nine times out of ten it'll be a shit end product.
I reckon all of the fuss and rumor at the time of his leaving it was blown up a little to hide the fact that he realised he wasn't going to be given those tools and was on a hiding to nothing with a decent reputation at stake.
Nicholson of course held his hands up for the job and worked under ANY restrictive conditions for his so called dream job.
The result of which is what we are all witnessing today.
If and when the new man comes in and isn't supported and decent signings made to fill the gaping holes in the squad then we will just be back to square one unfortunately.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 30, 2017 12:37:51 GMT
Beware owners who do not inject any share capital at all, but just "lend" money to the club - particularly if they attempt to secure the debt against a freehold!!! That business plan has worked for the Glazers at Man U.... Ah yes, the biggest club in the world. Flo - Your point in relation to Torquay United is?  |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 30, 2017 12:40:09 GMT
Interesting insights on Paul Cox. I posted a lazy comment the other week on here that he is good with a big budget, but loses interest if it's not forthcoming. This does rather put some flesh on the bones. Cox, Mickey Adams, Ronnie Moore and Richard Money shortlisted by today's HE on what Guy Henderson has labelled "Decision Day".
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 31, 2017 16:58:06 GMT
Apologies, Flo.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 31, 2017 23:33:16 GMT
That business plan has worked for the Glazers at Man U.... Tongue in cheek I know, but the Glazers did the total opposite. They funded their acquisition through a loan secured against the ongoing profitability of Manchester United Football Club as a going concern. GI paid Dave Phillips in cash the full £1 - or was it £1.50 (thirty five pence pieces)? They have put in zero share capital but want to secure the money they have lent to the club against the freehold of the land at Plainmoor. That land is worth very little while TUFC Ltd exists with its long-term lease, but worth a fortune when TUFC Ltd goes bust and leaves the land with vacant possession. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 31, 2017 23:43:09 GMT
Cox, Mickey Adams, Ronnie Moore and Richard Money shortlisted by today's HE on what Guy Henderson has labelled "Decision Day". Quite funny the Herald running "Decision Day" when it was "Indecision Day". Still I expect the silly sods at the Herald thought we had to get a new manager in before the non-existent transfer window closes. I wonder when it will finally dawn on them that there is no transfer window. I know it can be annoying when people always claim to be "in the know", but when I was walking home on Tuesday someone shouted "Richard Money" at me from a passing car. I cannot reveal my source because I couldn't see who it was! |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 31, 2017 23:48:11 GMT
I think I'm right in saying that during the Bateson reign there was a period where all our players were on loan from other clubs. No. You've made that one up. |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Sept 1, 2017 7:13:11 GMT
Quite funny the Herald running "Decision Day" when it was "Indecision Day". That might just catch on... |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 16, 2018 0:52:51 GMT
Cox disastrously converted Guiseley to full-time mid-season.
What were they thinking of letting him do that?
I wonder if he can pull off the hat-trick: Guiseley, Barrow and Torquay all relegated together.
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