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Post by teignmouth54 on Mar 6, 2015 23:19:38 GMT
How many people can remember the Torquay United side of 1949/50, fondly known as the £500 team, as this was the total sum paid to assemble the team? Torquay finished the season in 5th place, only three points behind the runners up, and at the time this was the highest position in their league history. However it does not reflect how close they were to securing promotion to division 2. On 18 March 1950, Torquay beat Bournemouth 3-1 at Plainmoor to consolidate their position in second place, only two points behind leaders Notts County, who had a game in hand. They were also five points ahead of third place Nottingham Forest, who had played one game more. With only nine games remaining Torquay were strong challengers for promotion but they would have to win the league as only the champions were promoted. Torquay were managed by John McNeil, who was appointed in June 1947, having previously managed Merthyr Tydfil. His first season was not a great success but in 1948/49 Torquay finished 9th in division 3 south and reached the 4th round of the F A Cup for the first time in their history. McNeil had assembled a fine team including some of the best players ever to appear for Torquay United, notably Dennis Lewis, Ronnie Shaw, Sam Collins. Don Mills was on loan from Queen’s Park Rangers until 31 December 1949. On 4 February 1950, Torquay were at home to Northampton and live commentary of the second half was provided on BBC radio, with John Arlott as the commentator. Before the match Torquay were in second place, three points behind Notts County and two points ahead of third placed Northampton. Torquay won the match 1-0. Torquay had moved into second place on 21 January 1950 following their 2-1 victory at Nottingham Forest and they remained there until 8 April 1950. Unfortunately, John McNeil resigned as manager in March 1950 and joined second division Bury. He cited apathy and poor attendances, despite Torquay’s excellent form, as the main reasons for his departure. Torquay’s victory over Bournemouth was the zenith of their season. They lost each of their next four games and only managed three points (all draws) from their final nine fixtures, finishing the season on 29 April with a 1-4 home defeat to Exeter City. Their most notable result during this period was a fine 1-1 draw at Notts County, the eventual champions, before a crowd of 43,456. John McNeil’s managerial record at Bury was poor as they constantly battled against relegation. In 1949/50 they finished 18th and their positions in subsequent seasons were 18th, 20th, 17th and 20th. McNeil left Bury in November 1953 when they were bottom of division 2! Unfortunately, I can find no record of John McNeil’s career following his departure from Bury. He died in 2002, aged 91-92. Although he left Torquay in March 1950, I can find no record of the exact date. It would be ironic if he left following the defeat of Bournemouth. McNeil was replaced as Torquay manager by Bob John, who was trainer- coach with Cardiff City. He was previously trainer at Torquay from June 1946 to May 1947, working under his former Arsenal team mate, Jack Butler. John had an unsuccessful spell as manager at Plainmoor, winning only 7 of the 28 games for which he was in charge. He left his position in November 1950, being replaced by Alex Massie. The £500 team enjoyed a successful period from the start of the season up to 18 March 1950, and the table below shows what might have been. Torquay’s average home attendance for the season was 8,779. This was relatively low for a division 3 south side at the time but it is the second highest figure in Torquay’s history behind the average of 9,096 for 1967/68. www.torquayunited-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/1949_1950/18/mar/torquay_united/index.shtml |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 7:19:09 GMT
John Arlott commentating at Plainmoor in 1950. What a lovely thought.
Here's the full Light Programme schedule for that Saturday. John Arlott, Charlie Buchan, Dick Barton, Dickie Attenborough, Clem Atlee and Torquay United all on the same day. It was a rich mixture:
9.00:NEWS
9.10:HOUSEWIVES' CHOICE
Harold Warrender introduces your request records
10.00:A. P. SHARPE'S HONOLULU HAWAIIANS
with Ronnie Joynes
(electric guitar) and Kathleen Heppell
10.30:KEYBOARD MUSIC
' The French Impressionists '
An illustrated talk by Kathleen Cooper
11.00:FELA SOWANDE
at the BBC theatre organ
11.30:DICK BARTON-SPECIAL AGENT
Omnibus edition
Script By: Geoffrey Webb
Produced By: Cleland Finn
Dick Barton: Duncan Carse
Snowey White: John Mann
Jock Anderson: Alex McCrindle
12.30:Concert Hour BBC MIDLAND LIGHT ORCHESTRA
Conductor, Gilbert Vinter
Cyril Chapman (clarinet)
13.15:SPORTS PARADE
What's on today
Interviews talks. and discussions with and about today's personalities and events, including previews of: Association Football: Torquay United v. Northampton Town
Amateur International: Ireland v. England
Racing: Herne the Hunter Handicap Steeplechase
Rugby Union: Wales v Scotland
Introduced by Michael Brooke
Edited by Angus Mackay
13.35:LIGHT ORCHESTRA
Conducted by Vilem Tausky
14.00:NEW BOOKS AND OLD BOOKS
A reader's guide to the past and present
Sarah Campion talks about:
' White Stranger' by Harry Wilcox ; 'While the Billy Boils' by Henry Lawson ; and 'Throw Me a Bone ' by Eleanor Lothrop
A. F. Birch Jones talks about:
' A Few Flowers for Shiner' by Richard Llewellyn ; 'The Dark Forest' by Hugh Walpole ; and ' South with Shackleton' by Dr. L. D. A. Hussey
14.30:A Salute to Britain presented by the UNITED STATES MILITARY ACADEMY BAND
(from West Point, New York)
Director,
Captain Francis E. Rosta
Eugene List (piano)
15.00:FRED HARTLEY
and his Music with Val Merrall on gramophone records
15.15:RACING
Herne the Hunter
Handicap Steeplechase
Commentary by Raymond Glen denning, assisted by Tom E. Webster as race-reader, from the Grand Stand, and by Richard North , assisted by Roger Morti mer as race-reader, from a point down the course
From Royal Windsor Racecourse
15.30:ASSOCIATION FOOTBALL
Torquay United v.
Northampton Town
Commentary by John Arlott during the second half of the match
From Plainmoor, Torquay
16.30:TITO BURNS
and his Sextet
The Ray Ellington Quartet
17.00:FROM A SEAT IN THE CIRCLE
David Southwood describes an excerpt from Robert Donat's production, presented by London Films
' The Cure for Love' starring Robert Donat and Renee Astierson
From Deansgate Theatre, Manchester
17.30:SPORTS REPORT
including football results
Special reports on: Football League: Birmingham City V. Arsenal, by Teddy Eden ; Bolton Wanderers v. Portsmouth, by H. D. Davies : Newcastle United v. Fulham, by A T. Davies ; Manchester United v. Burnley, by Alan Clarke
Scottish League: Tommy Muirhead on today's outstanding matches
Amateur International: Ireland v. England, by Ronald Rosser
Racing: Extracts from the commentary. on the race for the Herne and Hunter Handicap Steeplechase
Rugby Union International: Wales V. Scotland, by Rex Alston
Talking Sport: Bill McGowran on topics of the moment
Introduced by Raymond Glendenning
Edited by Angus Mackay
18.00:FELTON RAPLEY
at the BBC theatre organ
18.15:JAZZ CLUB
presents
' At the Jazz Band Ball ' and invites Robin Scutt to bring with him his own choice of music and musicians
Introduced by Hector Stewart Produced by Johnnie Stewart
18.45:CAN I HELP YOU?
Births, Marriages, and Deaths
Ellen Black discusses licences, certificates, and registration
19.00:News and RADIO NEWSREEL
19.25:Charles Buchan
on football
19.30:WE BEG TO DIFFER
20.00:GODFREY WINN
talks on ' My Week '
20.15:MUSIC FROM THE MOVIES
Melodies of the screen in swingtime and symphony played by Louis Levy and his Orchestra sung by Marion Sanders
Rita Williams , Johnny Johnston
Jacques Labrecque and the Wardour Singers
21.00:The Saturday-Evening Concert BBC OPERA ORCHESTRA
Conductor, Stanford Robinson
22.00:NEWS
22.15:ELECTION BROADCAST
The Prime Minister
The Rt. Hon. C. R. Attlee, C.H.
(Labour)
22.45:SATURDAY-NIGHT DANCE DATE
Ken Mackintosh and his Orchestra
From Astoria Ballroom, Nottingham
23.30:Richard Attenborough's RECORD RENDEZVOUS
23.56:News Summary
0.00:Close Down
Taken from the BBC Genome site which contains listings from the Radio Times between 1923 and 2009. I think Jon has previously quoted from this site.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 7:45:03 GMT
Other radio commentaries from the first quarter of 1950: 7 Jan 1950 - Stoke v Tottenham, FA Cup third round, Raymond Glendenning 14 Jan 1950 - Birmingham v Sunderland, Harry Walker 21 Jan 1950 - Leeds v Southampton, Kenneth Wolstenholme 28 Jan 1950 - Tottenham Hotspur v Sunderland, FA Cup fourth round, Alan Clarke with summaries by Charles Buchan 4 Feb 1950 - Torquay v Northampton, John Arlott11 Feb 1950 - FA Cup fifth round tie, none specified, Raymond Glendenning 18 Feb 1950 - Mansfield v Tranmere (Third Division North), Harry Walker 4 Mar 1950 - Liverpool v Blackpool, FA Cup quarter-final, Alan Clarke 11 Mar 1950 - Portsmouth v Burnley, Raymond Glendenning with summariees by F.N.S. Creek A18 Mar 1950 - Swansea v Sheff Wed, Alan Clarke 25 Mar 1950 - Liverpool v Everton, FA Cup semi-final at Maine Road, Alan Clarke with summaries by Henry Rose Source: homepage.ntlworld.com/carousel/ITV/1950Radio.txt |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 7, 2015 13:16:28 GMT
A recording of this survives: |
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Post by Jon on Mar 7, 2015 13:33:22 GMT
Although he left Torquay in March 1950, I can find no record of the exact date. It would be ironic if he left following the defeat of Bournemouth. Excellent post. I'll post up a timeline of McNeil events in the next day or two. |
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Post by bluedragon on Mar 7, 2015 16:25:17 GMT
Unfortunately, I can find no record of John McNeil’s career following his departure from Bury. He died in 2002, aged 91-92. Although he left Torquay in March 1950, I can find no record of the exact date. It would be ironic if he left following the defeat of Bournemouth. John or Jock McNeil's resignation from Bury on the weekend 28/29 November 1953 was cited in the newspapers as a "surprise". I have checked, he did not return to Scotland as a manager. The Dundee Courier of 31 March 1950 reported that Jock McNeil had accepted an offer of a three-year contract to be Secretary/Manager of Bury. I look forward to reading Jon's timeline. However, in the meantime John McNeil must have the widest spread of managerial appointments in the UK - Inverness Caledonian to Torquay. In Scotland he was a player at Hearts and Raith Rovers and started his career in Junior football at the wonderfully named Musselburgh Bruntonians. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 14:50:58 GMT
John or Jock McNeil's resignation from Bury on the weekend 28/29 November 1953 was cited in the newspapers as a "surprise". I have checked, he did not return to Scotland as a manager. The Dundee Courier of 31 March 1950 reported that Jock McNeil had accepted an offer of a three-year contract to be Secretary/Manager of Bury. Thinking of John McNeil and Bury in the 1950s, the Gigg Lane club must have been one of those which seemed both far away and little-known to Torquay United supporters. Yet Bury would also have been seen as giants (of a small kind anyway). Members of the Football League since 1894, the club never played below the top two tiers until 1957. It was then another fourteen years until they played in the Fourth Division. In time Torquay United faced Bury a fair number of times. Supporters of my generation probably became accustomed to considering Bury as a club slightly larger than Torquay. One which, as often as not, was on relatively equal terms. The gap, I fear, has opened again. I was pleased to make it to Bury last season for, as it happens, our fine win in the midst of an almighty thunderstorm. As a football trip I've always rather liked it. |
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Post by Jon on Mar 9, 2015 0:04:08 GMT
look forward to reading Jon's timeline Sorry if I have raised hopes of a McNeil career story - I only meant the dates of his leaving Plainmoor. I've already touched on this before: When McNeil was offered the Bury job, he was already on a run of P2 W0 D0 L2 F0 A4. He then stayed on until after the Easter fixtures - another four games P4 W0 D2 L2 F4 A7. After McNeil left, Chairman Rowland Ward picked the side for the last three games after consulting skipper Bert Head (who was red hot favourite for the job) and trainer Bob John. P3 W0 D1 L2 F2 A7. Put those three together and you have a runin of P9 W0 D3 L6 F6 A18. We would have needed another eleven points to pip Notts County - say P9 W6 D2 L1. So if it wasn't Bob John's fault, whose fault was it? McNeil's? Two points from his last six games is rubbish, isn't it? McNeil's for accepting Bury's offer? A professional furthering his career? How dare he? Judas! The Board's for dithering? Maybe they felt that a thorough recruitment process was necessary - even if they did end up appointing the obvious candidate who was right under their nose all the time. Probably anyone outside of Torquay would have said that it was always inevitable that a club with our resources would never be able to maintain the pace over 42 games - especially after losing Don Mills. I doubt if the majority of the Popside saw it like that though. Here are the WMN cuttings. Bert Head was another John Bond - a great manager who slipped through our fingers. WMN 31/03/50   WMN 11/04/50  WMN 12/04/50  WMN 21/04/50  WMN 15/05/50  I have already put up the cuttings reporting Bob John's resignation later that year: torquayfansforum.co.uk/thread/10044/hugh-brown |
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Post by bluedragon on Mar 9, 2015 7:56:32 GMT
John Law McNeil was signed by Heart of Midlothian from Junior club Musselburgh Bruntonians on 12 September 1925. Hearts finished third in season 1925/26 with John making 15 league appearances (12 goals). In season 1926/27 he played 14 league games (6 goals) before going on loan to Raith Rovers from 18 January 1927 to 29 April 1927 where he made 6 league appearances (5 goals) and played in one Scottish Cup tie (1 goals). In Scotland he was very much a goal-a-game centre forward.
He returned to Hearts before signing for Portsmouth on 7 December 1928. I then have him signing for Reading in January 1930. He played for Guildford City in 1932/33 before returning to Scotland to play for non-league Inverness Caledonian . In August 1934 he signed for Plymouth Argyle and then in May 1939 Clapton Orient.
After the War I believe he had a spell as Player/Manager at Inverness Caledonian and I see from the forum he was at Merthyr before going to Plainmoor.
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hector
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Post by hector on Mar 9, 2015 9:46:14 GMT
Interesting that 'girls may be their own enemies' and lack physical stamina and concentration. I'm saying nothing.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 10, 2015 0:24:22 GMT
Interesting that 'girls may be their own enemies' and lack physical stamina and concentration. I'm saying nothing. How strange 1950 views look through 2015 eyes. What would someone from 1885 think? When was this public information film made? |
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