petef
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Post by petef on Jul 30, 2014 17:29:23 GMT
Have to laugh - Nico is turning out for Kiddie www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/Ex-Torquay-United-star-Kevin-Nicholson-turns/story-22017966-detail/story.html and we still haven't solved that position. All the cries for Cruise to get the nod and he cant even perform at conference level. Time to call it a day unfortunately - gifted footballer in some respects but limited as has little pace and little on offer going forward with a distinct lack of awareness to be a reliable defender. We need another Baily Cargill. The other side I am not quite as concerned. Tonge has no pace and is a predictable and very ordinary defender I already believe MacDonald would do a better job. Thompson should also be given a decent run there to see if he can make the transition is a better athlete and can cross a ball. It remains to be seen if he can tackle and defend his area of the pitch but surely he must be given the chance.
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Jul 30, 2014 20:52:50 GMT
Pete- I think MacDonald will be first choice centre back before long!
Phil-trust me, you don't ever want to see that striking partnership in a competitive match, particularly if the ball is lumped up to them.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2014 21:41:06 GMT
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2014 22:36:57 GMT
My main thoughts so far in pre-season have been that Young and Bowman are excellent additions, that we are stuck with six players we don't want and that our full backs are not good enough and not quick enough.
Back four looks a joke on the second and third Weymouth goals. Tonge and Cruise not good enough or quick enough. Downes might get away with his lack of pace with a couple of quick full backs but we will leak goals if all of those three play.
Yeoman and Benyon is not a partnership that will work - particularly the way we are looking to play. I would have thought the reason for signing O'Achie was for him to cover Bowman.
Beating a team like Walsall and losing to a team like Weymouth is the kind of thing that happens pre-season. No need to over-react to either.
I'm still expecting mid-table. Being stuck with too many players we don't want looks too big a handicap to me - although I would love to be proved wrong.
It would be nice to see a new left-back on Saturday though - Cruise is one bit of deadwood we are not obliged to keep.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 30, 2014 22:39:25 GMT
Nico is turning out for Kiddie Good luck to Nico. I'm sure he will enjoy those pies.
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sam
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Post by sam on Jul 31, 2014 6:56:23 GMT
I see that Ed Palmer, available to Torquay United, appeared to play a significant part in this game if the highlights are anything to go by. He scored the first goal, put in a good pass in the build up to their second and then did a trademark interception, feint, and a 60 yard pass to the feet of the forward who scored their third. I didn't see the game so don't know how he did the rest of the time. Surely he deserved a trial at the very least. I would put him ahead of several players I saw last season, some who are still at the club. I feel we are missing out.
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petef
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Post by petef on Jul 31, 2014 9:16:12 GMT
Keep your powder dry. One match, a pre-season friendly we don't know yet how good or how bad we are and will only become apparent after a good number of proper competitive matches, Ed may be a decent player but you cannot judge any player on one performance. Is all about consistency of performance, getting players close to their peak potential and doing it week in week out. If CH can accomplish that one we are half way there and for any side to be consistent must have a settled first eleven. No sure what that is yet so who do we think CH will start at Gateshead? A very tricky opener against a former league club who have been rejuvenated in recent years and have some very useful players.
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hector
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Post by hector on Jul 31, 2014 10:38:18 GMT
I see that Ed Palmer, available to Torquay United, appeared to play a significant part in this game if the highlights are anything to go by. He scored the first goal, put in a good pass in the build up to their second and then did a trademark interception, feint, and a 60 yard pass to the feet of the forward who scored their third. I didn't see the game so don't know how he did the rest of the time. Surely he deserved a trial at the very least. I would put him ahead of several players I saw last season, some who are still at the club. I feel we are missing out. I think Palmer wasn't really up to Football League standard and I suspect Conference is not his level either. I guess there is a reasonable chance that we might sink to his natural level one day and see him as a good signing.
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hector
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Post by hector on Jul 31, 2014 10:41:05 GMT
Like you point out, results like this happen in pre-season - Aston Villa lost to Chesterfield but it doesn't look very good.Not sure which of the new signings was the one who gave the ball away for Weymouth's 3rd - he appeared to be playing at left-back...might be Ajala but it was a poor effort. With Benyon/Yeoman forward line, it was one that is weaker than the one Weymouth had on show - these two surely can be no more than back-up strikers.
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petef
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Post by petef on Jul 31, 2014 13:09:52 GMT
Benyon and Yeoman are both penalty box poachers who need supply and physical support. One or the other should partner one of the big guys and hope they get fed in the right areas or they will both look very ordinary. Hargreaves knows this hes no fool why he has signed two proper target men. Wing back is looking like the weakest area Tonge and Cruise have been given plenty of chances now and both have failed to deliver.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 13:23:13 GMT
I'm still expecting mid-table. Being stuck with too many players we don't want looks too big a handicap to me - although I would love to be proved wrong. Me too. But mid-table can be a big place, can't it? A pedant may restrict it to 11th-14th; others would use the "mid-third" gauge of 9th-16th. You could, depending on how the points fall, extend your definition to a broad band between 7th and 18th. Or thereabouts. I'm going for the middle-six - 10th to 15th - and, wherever I visualised us before Walsall and Argyle, I probably moved us up a couple of places afterwards. Now, after hearing about Weymouth, I've moved us down a notch or two from my starting place. Another adjustment, no doubt, after Exeter; a more significant one after Gateshead. Beyond that, who knows? Comings and goings will play a bit part as will, lest we forget, managerial strategy and player performance. It may take a while to realise whether we're talking of things being cast in stone relatively early or of sands which constantly shift. In the short-term, Exeter on Saturday. I saw them against Swansea. They look like a side which plays good football but will struggle to score goals and will always be prone to defensive lapses. A tale familiar to us: plenty of promise; much to fret about. I'd be anxious if I supported them. Saturday could be fascinating; I also expect it to be undistinguished. Correct me, of course, if it's a cracker with both sets of supporters subsequently predicting promotion. My main thoughts so far in pre-season have been that Young and Bowman are excellent additions, that we are stuck with six players we don't want and that our full backs are not good enough and not quick enough. Somebody, somewhere recently drew a parallel with 2007 and issued the warning that it's all rather different this time around. Then we would sign a player of established pedigree in a manner that declared our intent. Then a similar player would follow. And another. And another. And another. This time Bowman and Young may be the limit as far as this goes, certainly until we can unload. I'd like Briscoe to fall in this category - wouldn't we all? - and then it's a case for hoping that the "second tier" signings prove more successful than unsuccessful. In fact we could do with some of these signings - in that they are relatively unheralded and inexperienced - having a similar impact to Benyon and Stevens all those years ago. Over two or three seasons, each provided better value than we may have hoped at the outset. Downes might get away with his lack of pace with a couple of quick full backs but we will leak goals if all of those three play. A fair point. Downes divides opinion. There are those who adore him; there are those who consider him to be an unspeakably awful player. Each time I saw him have a stormer last season; he had a stinker the next time. And, after I'd seen him torn to shreds, he was commanding on the subsequent occasion. I expect the same next season and, as Jon says, a poor back four will undoubtably make Downes more vulnerable. Downes' presence in the team is, to me, not unlike that of Rice. Both can probably be accommodated in a team which is set to be "mid table"; each could be costly if we were chasing promotion. This becomes a tautology. These players are good enough if we don't have a particularly strong team or harbour great ambition. If our team is better - and we have aspirations - they're not up to it. I'm not sure if I really wish to think like this. Yet it may be a case of "needs must".
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hector
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Post by hector on Jul 31, 2014 15:21:08 GMT
Benyon and Yeoman are both penalty box poachers who need supply and physical support. One or the other should partner one of the big guys and hope they get fed in the right areas or they will both look very ordinary. Hargreaves knows this hes no fool why he has signed two proper target men. Wing back is looking like the weakest area Tonge and Cruise have been given plenty of chances now and both have failed to deliver. I think even if they had Rene Howe alongside of them, neither of this pair would be especially effective. Benyon is too small and too slow to be any sort of threat at any level above Step 7. His one flash-in-the-pan season is all that people feed off, in terms of thinking that he has any sort of quality as a forward about him. This is a player who struggled to score THREE goals in an entire season. He is on the transfer-list for a reason. I think Yeoman would have contributed more than 3 goals last season but not many more. Of the two, he is the more likely to score, in my view.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 31, 2014 22:21:36 GMT
Not sure which of the new signings was the one who gave the ball away for Weymouth's 3rd - he appeared to be playing at left-back...might be Ajala but it was a poor effort. Yes it was Ajala. I've tried not to get carried away by the exciting pieces of flare and skill we have seen from him so far in pre-season. The fact is that a flare player is just as likely to influence a game by sloppily giving the ball away as by producing a piece of magic - perhaps more so. It comes down to discipline and I could easily see Ajala following a Carayol career path or a Macklin career path. We shall have to wait and see. In fairness to Ajala, surrendering position out on the left wing probably would not have led to our leaking a goal if it hadn't been for Cruise and Downes on the left side of our defence doing an impression of the Chuckle Brothers.
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Post by bristolgull on Jul 31, 2014 22:30:23 GMT
Benyon and Yeoman are both penalty box poachers who need supply and physical support. One or the other should partner one of the big guys and hope they get fed in the right areas or they will both look very ordinary. Hargreaves knows this hes no fool why he has signed two proper target men. Wing back is looking like the weakest area Tonge and Cruise have been given plenty of chances now and both have failed to deliver. I had hoped benyon would have moved on by now but looks like we will be stuck with him and his endless running and falling over. I'd love to be proven wrong but I just can't see him scoring consistently, even in the conference. The full backs are as you rightly say another concern. Who do you play at LB? Cruise needs to move on in my opinion, technically good but performs poorly. How about young Ives? Is he too young to be thrown in? Play him Saturday and see how he gets on. Otherwise hope for a decent last minute loanee..
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 31, 2014 22:39:30 GMT
Downes divides opinion. There are those who adore him; there are those who consider him to be an unspeakably awful player. I'm not sure that Downes really divides opinion as greatly as you might think from reading a certain forum, much as I don't think Mansell does really. The vast "silent majority" of fans are perfectly capable of understanding players' strengths AND weaknesses. A certain type of internet user delights in taking a wide position and then using it as a high horse from which to deride imaginary hordes of ignorant people too stupid to understand the bleeding obvious. Some thrive on that pack instinct. You have to take a side and join the scrap. Is Downes / Mansell / whoever a double-fist-pumping superhero or someone to be abused and derided? For most people, the answer is neither of the above.
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