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Post by ospelgull on Apr 11, 2014 7:52:04 GMT
Back in late 2012 I picked up this Plainmoor turnstile. My aim is to restore it as much as possible in it's Original state and place it in my garden. Yesterday I've sandblasted it. Thanks to Andrew Candy I now have the RAL colours to restore it back in it's original state. Questions; 1) Does any of you know when these turnstiles were first used by the club? 2) Who were the manufacturers? Somehow I've lost the brass plate / plaque. Studip I know... I think LeGrand & Sutcliff London, I found a picture of a similar looking turnstile on the internet and that one was manufactured by LeGrand & Sutcliff London although I'm not 100% sure. Any help is appreciated, thanks so far!
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Apr 16, 2014 22:46:32 GMT
I've tried archive searching Plainmoor and turnstile but got nothing but repeated references to poor gates.
Do you have any rough idea of how old you think the turnstile may be, Rob?
Maybe some old football ground specialists might be able to help? Budleigh?
Assuming this is from behind the grandstand (i.e. removed when Bristow's Bench was built), let's just run through a few key dates that may have seen new turnstiles:
1892 - Torquay Athletic returned from a 4.5 year exile and built the first grandstand. They were getting decent crowds by now so may very well have had turnstiles. I doubt if they would have had them when the original Athletic started playing there in 1881, and possibly not when the new club started up in 1886.
1910 - The council bought Plainmoor from the Cary Estate and undertook some ground improvements.
1921 - A second grandstand was built by the council for the new professional Torquay United club.
1927 - Two existing stands removed and replaced by the one bought from Buckfastleigh Racecourse.
1955 - The grandstand was extended towards the Ellacombe end, covering over the paddock area.
I don't know whether your turnstile would date from any of these years, but they would seem the most likely.
Let me know if you can narrow the date down any further. The answer may very well lie in council minutes archived at Torquay Library.
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Post by gullone on May 7, 2014 15:21:31 GMT
Sorry bit late on this one Rob but heres a pic of a Plainmoor turnstile cover and a quick bit of research shows this firm were operating in the 1920s.
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Post by bluedragon on May 7, 2014 18:26:48 GMT
For what it is worth this exact design of turnstile was installed in the Nelson Monument on Calton Hill, Edinburgh in 1886. The only connection with football is that you get a great view of Hibernian's Easter Road ground from the top. I hope that date may help.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 7, 2014 22:24:47 GMT
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Post by ospelgull on May 13, 2015 8:48:57 GMT
Finally, the turnstile is completely restored. However I still don't know from what year it dates and when it was first used at Plainmoor. I found this about the manufacturer Le Grand & Sutcliff ; Anyway, it's placed and bolted in the garden.
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Post by gullone on May 13, 2015 14:16:14 GMT
Finally, the turnstile is completely restored. That is looking superb Rob, you have done a great job !
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 14, 2015 22:43:40 GMT
Excellent work Rob - a thing of great beauty! The answer may very well lie in council minutes archived at Torquay Library. Not necessarily Rob's turnstile, but..... Minute no 7186 - 28 September 1911"With regard to the provision of entrance gates to Plainmoor Field, the Borough Surveyor was instructed to provide entrances with turnstiles at the Warbro Lane and Bronshill Road ends of the ground". Minute no 7463 - 20 November 1911"....resolved that the tender of Mr Jackman in the sum of £64 be accepted".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2015 2:48:00 GMT
I found this: linkIt shows that a new entrance turnstile cost £12 in 1896, and an exit turnstile £9. It doesn't say in the council minutes how many entrances should be at the Warbro Lane and Bronshill Road ends of the ground, so perhaps the ones in 1911 were a job lot of secondhand ones? As an aside, according to the Bank of England inflation calculator £12 in 1896 would be £1425 in today's money.
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Post by ospelgull on May 21, 2015 12:58:06 GMT
Thanks, must say I'm very satisfied about the endresult. Regarding it's age, I've not been making any progress. 1911 or older would be even more briljant. Can't find much about LeGrand & Sutcliff London. www.gracesguide.co.uk/Le_Grand,_Sutcliffe_and_Gell In 1880 it's refers to Le Grand and Sutcliff. In 1925 it's changed to Le Grand, Sutcliffe and Gell Based on these years you would say that 1910/11 or 1921 is correct.
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Post by gateman49 on Jun 9, 2015 15:26:04 GMT
As a professional user of the turnstiles for 49 years, yes, at the end of next season I will have completed 50 man and boy ( or boy and man), firstly the stile looks very nice but it isn't a typical representation of those that I know!
It's a bit like the debates to be had within the preserved steam railway fraternity as those engines that grandly puff up and down the line these days are immaculate but ask anybody who can remember and they will tell you that those in operation when steam ruled (certainly after nationalisation) were filthy and a monochrome dusty and rusty shade of black. Thus, to be realistic your stile needs to have 90% of the paint chipped off and the remaining paint covered in a layer of dust.
My recollection is that none of that type of stile was bought new and they were ancient and creaky when brought to Plainmoor. The only new stiles were a batch bought when the old social club was knocked down and the stiles for the Ellacombe end of the pop side were moved to a new block built entrance at that corner. These were luxururious as they included a remote control release. This was a simple attachment using a British Leyland (probably made by Girling) master and slave cylinder set as found on the brake system of a Mini.
These worked well for a couple of seasons but rust and lack of maintenance took is toll and as the rubbers perished so the fluid leaked and no matter how hard you pressed the foot pedal nothing happened and the stile had to be forced or shut! In fact, a couple of these still linger on as those that still worked were moved back along Marnham Road when the entrance was shifted to its current position.
As for all those entrance moves along Marnham Road, I suppose one might say 'what goes round comes around'.
In passing, the stile that I currently operate is another second hand one bought, I think, from Taunton Racecourse, a few years back and it is similar to this bright shiny one on show on this thread. These are resilient as most of the parts are cast, and there is some brass and other alloy in the counter mechanisms which show how rugged things were from that era. Their only Achilles heel is that they are cumbersome and the fulcrum hinge for that massive foot control tends to wear so one has to use all sorts of techniques to get a smooth swing only allowing one customer to enter at each click!
Enough of this reverie, what a fine piece of garden furniture, well done!
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Post by ospelgull on Oct 12, 2015 8:09:15 GMT
As a professional user of the turnstiles for 49 years, yes, at the end of next season I will have completed 50 man and boy ( or boy and man), firstly the stile looks very nice but it isn't a typical representation of those that I know! It's a bit like the debates to be had within the preserved steam railway fraternity as those engines that grandly puff up and down the line these days are immaculate but ask anybody who can remember and they will tell you that those in operation when steam ruled (certainly after nationalisation) were filthy and a monochrome dusty and rusty shade of black. Thus, to be realistic your stile needs to have 90% of the paint chipped off and the remaining paint covered in a layer of dust. My recollection is that none of that type of stile was bought new and they were ancient and creaky when brought to Plainmoor. The only new stiles were a batch bought when the old social club was knocked down and the stiles for the Ellacombe end of the pop side were moved to a new block built entrance at that corner. These were luxururious as they included a remote control release. This was a simple attachment using a British Leyland (probably made by Girling) master and slave cylinder set as found on the brake system of a Mini. These worked well for a couple of seasons but rust and lack of maintenance took is toll and as the rubbers perished so the fluid leaked and no matter how hard you pressed the foot pedal nothing happened and the stile had to be forced or shut! In fact, a couple of these still linger on as those that still worked were moved back along Marnham Road when the entrance was shifted to its current position. As for all those entrance moves along Marnham Road, I suppose one might say 'what goes round comes around'. In passing, the stile that I currently operate is another second hand one bought, I think, from Taunton Racecourse, a few years back and it is similar to this bright shiny one on show on this thread. These are resilient as most of the parts are cast, and there is some brass and other alloy in the counter mechanisms which show how rugged things were from that era. Their only Achilles heel is that they are cumbersome and the fulcrum hinge for that massive foot control tends to wear so one has to use all sorts of techniques to get a smooth swing only allowing one customer to enter at each click! Enough of this reverie, what a fine piece of garden furniture, well done! Gateman, first of all thanks for the info. All I have as regarding it's "original" colours is this picture that was on the official club website back in 2012.
Yellow and blue but there's a grey/white colour underneath it. Don't know if this is the primer / first coat or if it's the original colour from before it arrived at Plainmoor.
So if the one you currently operate is the same one as mine it is understandable that it's also from Taunton's Racecourse? Do you know in which year the turnstiles arrived at Plainmoor and how many of them were brought in?
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Post by gateman49 on Oct 13, 2015 19:45:26 GMT
Hi Ospelgul,
As far as i can see the one I currently operate and yours are not by the same maker (albeit that they are, as previously stated, similar). I'll have a closer look at mine on Saturday next as, unless miracles happen, it won't be whirring round! I think that it was a single purchase about 6 or 7 years ago rather than part of a batch so the Taunton connection won't apply to yours as far as I know.
As to colour schemes, they wouldn't apply at Plainmoor (or whatever it's now called), they'd have been painted with any paint to hand if they were lucky enough to be painted so the paint scheme that you have come up with, although entirely appropriate, might have been done similarly in the past but might not have!
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