Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2008 18:47:41 GMT
It seems the club may get close to £200.000. for the trip to Wembley. No matter what anyone may have felt about the competition, the financial rewards are a real boost to the club.
With all the improvements taking place, IE new floodlights and the expansion of the bar and entertainment facilities, this extra income will certainly help.
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Post by andygulls on Jun 13, 2008 21:01:38 GMT
I never quite understood the objections to our progress in the Trophy. Whilst the Setanta Shield may be a competition too many, the FA Trophy is a competition of some standing which we had a real chance of winning (and will again next season). Toward the end of the season it was, in my view, wins in the FA Trophy that kept the positive feeling and some self belief present at the time league form was starting to crack. I have to say that it was also quite nice to be in a cup competition without underdog status.
The true benefit of last seasons run can now be seen in the squad strength and quality with which we will enter the new season.
I think that both the BSP and the Trophy will be tougher competitions next season with an increase in the number of teams with a realistic chance of success. Our chances will be all the stronger for our achievement in 07/08.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2008 21:08:01 GMT
I feel the problem was that so many felt, that playing in the Trophy, was somehow responsible, for not getting promotion.
I don't really believe it had much impact on our results since Xmas, the team lost its way and was unable to change the style of play.
Winning the Trophy would have made the end of the season a little less painful, but sadly we didn't even do that.
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Enzo
TFF member
Posts: 283 
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Post by Enzo on Jun 13, 2008 21:49:17 GMT
I was one of the supporters who never rated the Trophy - I wouldn't say I objected, I just wasn't bothered whether we won or lost. I felt we had got ourselves in with a real chance of going up automatically and, however slight the risk, it was not worth it.
The Wembley windfall is certainly welcome - especially as we have lost the parachute payment. It is also a bonus with the recent lifting of the wage cap. However, only this week, Ian Hayman was lamenting the cost of missing out on promotion - the league two payment last season was something in the region of £320,000. One cannot say that the Trophy was responsible for us missing out, but the stats suggest that it played a part.
It is impossible to say whether our cup run had a damaging effect on our league form - equally, the suspicion that it did, cannot be discounted out of hand. We were unbeaten in the seven games prior to our quarter final victory over Crawley. In the four league games between quarter final and the successful conclusion of the second leg semi against York we lost to Halifax, Grays and Aldershot, and drew at home to Altrincham. I felt we were unlucky against the Shots, but the three other games were probably our worst performances of the season. Once we had got to Wembley, we took 10 points out of the next 4 games. When a player like Tim Sills publicly states that his mind had been on Wembley during the poor run of form, questions have to asked.
The way Buckle handles issues like this this year will be interesting - last season must have been a massive learning curve. The motivation of players during this period, along with some of the tactical decisions he made in the final weeks of the season are areas where Buckle may have been found wanting in an otherwise very impressive managerial debut.
Despite the news about the windfall, I can't see me being interested in the Trophy this season. I don't buy into this "respected trophy" thing either - the FA Vase and the Herald Cup are well respected, but I have no wish for TUFC to win them. We got less than 2,300 people for the home semi final. Who respects it? People slate the Shield, but if the final were to be moved to Wembley, fans would crawl out of the woodwork.
Ironically, I actually think we are building a squad with a depth in quality capable of challenging on both fronts this year - Mind you, the last time I felt this confident about our prospects we had just signed Habib Sissoko as the final piece of the promotion jigsaw! Most players that we sign look great during June and July! It is not always the case by November!
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Jun 13, 2008 22:02:59 GMT
Well I must confess that I was part of the brigade, calling it a tin pot cup. the two or three games before we had Aldershot at home, were the ones that really cost the chance of going up.
Buckle would have leaned many lessons from last season, its if he can put it into getting it right this season.
I do agree about how we get our hope up when we sign new players and the effect it has on us believing that some how out team has the best players. I'm sure so many fans of other teams feel that they had the better players etc.
We will have to wait and see how they all play as a team, but it does look on paper anyway our strongest squad for sometime
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Post by andygulls on Jun 13, 2008 22:33:29 GMT
I was one of the supporters who never rated the Trophy - I wouldn't say I objected, I just wasn't bothered whether we won or lost. I felt we had got ourselves in with a real chance of going up automatically and, however slight the risk, it was not worth it. The Wembley windfall is certainly welcome - especially as we have lost the parachute payment. It is also a bonus with the recent lifting of the wage cap. However, only this week, Ian Hayman was lamenting the cost of missing out on promotion - the league two payment last season was something in the region of £320,000. One cannot say that the Trophy was responsible for us missing out, but the stats suggest that it played a part. It is impossible to say whether our cup run had a damaging effect on our league form - equally, the suspicion that it did, cannot be discounted out of hand. We were unbeaten in the seven games prior to our quarter final victory over Crawley. In the four league games between quarter final and the successful conclusion of the second leg semi against York we lost to Halifax, Grays and Aldershot, and drew at home to Altrincham. I felt we were unlucky against the Shots, but the three other games were probably our worst performances of the season. Once we had got to Wembley, we took 10 points out of the next 4 games. When a player like Tim Sills publicly states that his mind had been on Wembley during the poor run of form, questions have to asked. The way Buckle handles issues like this this year will be interesting - last season must have been a massive learning curve. The motivation of players during this period, along with some of the tactical decisions he made in the final weeks of the season are areas where Buckle may have been found wanting in an otherwise very impressive managerial debut. Despite the news about the windfall, I can't see me being interested in the Trophy this season. I don't buy into this "respected trophy" thing either - the FA Vase and the Herald Cup are well respected, but I have no wish for TUFC to win them. We got less than 2,300 people for the home semi final. Who respects it? People slate the Shield, but if the final were to be moved to Wembley, fans would crawl out of the woodwork. Ironically, I actually think we are building a squad with a depth in quality capable of challenging on both fronts this year - Mind you, the last time I felt this confident about our prospects we had just signed Habib Sissoko as the final piece of the promotion jigsaw! Most players that we sign look great during June and July! It is not always the case by November! Enzo An excellent post and well argued, even if I don't quite agree with all of it.  I suppose that I have always had a healthy regard for the FA Trophy having followed the non league scene actively in the 70's alongside watching Torquay United with a number of others. Merse will recall some of the individuals. The 7 games unbeaten that you refer to prior to the Crawley game included 2 FA Trophy victories. The 5 league matches saw 3 wins and 2 draws. Both draws disappointing away performances at Salisbury and Weymouth. When we played in the Trophy we were forced to open the game up as a win had to be achieved. I think you are correct in that PB clearly had difficulty in plotting an effective course in terms of tactics, team selections and substitutions during the run in. He never quite took the aggressive positive approach of our early season success. In addition I think that we didn't get the January transfer window right and the later loan signings did not always come off. Yes PB had a steep learning curve as we all do in the first year of a new role. I would not blame the Trophy for league failure, it's just that not everything came together quite as well as it should. It is also worth remembering that the run of success from Aldershot was quite staggering. I would be very surprised if the winning points total next season gets close to the Aldershot figure. Like you I am cautiously optimistic for next season based on how the squad is coming together. But many factors not the least injuries, suspensions and squad chemistry will play a part. Isn't it great to be able to enter a season with justifiable optimism and isn't it great to have an excellent forum on which to have a debate.  Regards |
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Enzo
TFF member
Posts: 283
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Post by Enzo on Jun 14, 2008 10:15:35 GMT
I was one of the supporters who never rated the Trophy - I wouldn't say I objected, I just wasn't bothered whether we won or lost. I felt we had got ourselves in with a real chance of going up automatically and, however slight the risk, it was not worth it. The Wembley windfall is certainly welcome - especially as we have lost the parachute payment. It is also a bonus with the recent lifting of the wage cap. However, only this week, Ian Hayman was lamenting the cost of missing out on promotion - the league two payment last season was something in the region of £320,000. One cannot say that the Trophy was responsible for us missing out, but the stats suggest that it played a part. It is impossible to say whether our cup run had a damaging effect on our league form - equally, the suspicion that it did, cannot be discounted out of hand. We were unbeaten in the seven games prior to our quarter final victory over Crawley. In the four league games between quarter final and the successful conclusion of the second leg semi against York we lost to Halifax, Grays and Aldershot, and drew at home to Altrincham. I felt we were unlucky against the Shots, but the three other games were probably our worst performances of the season. Once we had got to Wembley, we took 10 points out of the next 4 games. When a player like Tim Sills publicly states that his mind had been on Wembley during the poor run of form, questions have to asked. The way Buckle handles issues like this this year will be interesting - last season must have been a massive learning curve. The motivation of players during this period, along with some of the tactical decisions he made in the final weeks of the season are areas where Buckle may have been found wanting in an otherwise very impressive managerial debut. Despite the news about the windfall, I can't see me being interested in the Trophy this season. I don't buy into this "respected trophy" thing either - the FA Vase and the Herald Cup are well respected, but I have no wish for TUFC to win them. We got less than 2,300 people for the home semi final. Who respects it? People slate the Shield, but if the final were to be moved to Wembley, fans would crawl out of the woodwork. Ironically, I actually think we are building a squad with a depth in quality capable of challenging on both fronts this year - Mind you, the last time I felt this confident about our prospects we had just signed Habib Sissoko as the final piece of the promotion jigsaw! Most players that we sign look great during June and July! It is not always the case by November! Enzo An excellent post and well argued, even if I don't quite agree with all of it. I suppose that I have always had a healthy regard for the FA Trophy having followed the non league scene actively in the 70's alongside watching Torquay United with a number of others. Merse will recall some of the individuals. The 7 games unbeaten that you refer to prior to the Crawley game included 2 FA Trophy victories. The 5 league matches saw 3 wins and 2 draws. Both draws disappointing away performances at Salisbury and Weymouth. When we played in the Trophy we were forced to open the game up as a win had to be achieved. I think you are correct in that PB clearly had difficulty in plotting an effective course in terms of tactics, team selections and substitutions during the run in. He never quite took the aggressive positive approach of our early season success. In addition I think that we didn't get the January transfer window right and the later loan signings did not always come off. Yes PB had a steep learning curve as we all do in the first year of a new role. I would not blame the Trophy for league failure, it's just that not everything came together quite as well as it should. It is also worth remembering that the run of success from Aldershot was quite staggering. I would be very surprised if the winning points total next season gets close to the Aldershot figure. Like you I am cautiously optimistic for next season based on how the squad is coming together. But many factors not the least injuries, suspensions and squad chemistry will play a part. Isn't it great to be able to enter a season with justifiable optimism and[glow=red,2,300] isn't it great to have an excellent forum on which to have a debate. [/glow] Regards Cheers for your comment. With regard to the bottom bit, I'll keep out of the politics of it all and lurk on both boards, making the odd post. Having two website forums is a far cry from my youth of kicking around until 1pm for the Herald to come out or checking BBC Ceefax page 312 for any relvevant 'News in Brief' |
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Post by chesneygull on Jun 14, 2008 12:01:57 GMT
I agree with Dave R. The reason we lost out on promotion was that we could not change our play when the game was running away from us. By getting to the play-offs early we lost any sort on momentum we had, which resting players also impacted on. Difficult balance between resting visibly tired players and winning matches at the end of the season.
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merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Jun 14, 2008 17:37:38 GMT
I agree with Dave R. The reason we lost out on promotion was that we could not change our play when the game was running away from us. By getting to the play-offs early we lost any sort on momentum we had, which resting players also impacted on. Difficult balance between resting visibly tired players and winning matches at the end of the season.  Having had a few weeks to reflect on that awful disappointment I would say that that post sums up perfectly how I feel. In most sports it is difficult to get your foot back on the accelerator once you have taken it off, and I feel that false "cold War" period when we merely had to play out those meaningless games after the play offs were achieved were very damaging. I would also question making too big a deal of the preparation for the final of the Trophy by going away, the ridiculous ritual of the "Wembley Suit" and wearing of button holes and all that attention grabbing balderdash. I much prefer the Tisdale approach of just turning as per normal for an away match in travelling gear and just walking out and getting on with the job in hand. Why turn up for a working day dressed as if you are going to a wedding?................oh, and I don't "do" weddings apart from my own children's by the way! The point I am trying to make is that all the periphery activity detracts from the task in hand, and mental tuning and focus are all important as any sports psychologist will tell you. The reported pay off from getting to the final also deflates all those arguments that the Trophy was "Tinpot" - how can something that brings in something equating to £4k a week for the coming season's use be called tinpot? Reflecting further, I believe that the main reason we did not go up was plainly and simply that we were not good enough; that a further year (we hope) will see the infrastructure of the club further strengthened both to support a more concerted promotion push and (just as important) fully equip the club as a competent competitor in the higher grade if promotion is achieved.......................something we haven't seen OUR club adequately prepare for in over forty years.........as the last two promotions were tainted in my opinion by the buffoonery, arrogance and downright complacency of ownership and management who obviously had no grasp of the fact that it is useless winning promotion if one is not good enough to sustain it. |
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Having had a few weeks to reflect on that awful disappointment I would say that that post sums up perfectly how I feel.