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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 18:30:43 GMT
Put a SOCX in it Barton ! If Lord Beaverbrook makes the perfectly reasonable point that wildebeeste is solely responsible for bringing the country to it's knees by arranging for the disabled to rival lottery winners with the size of their payouts, do you seriously expect us to ignore his findings in favour of what Kim il Gangnam Style might have said in South Korea ?
This is nothing more than an attempt to bamboozle those of us who never attended a grammar school or university with talk of databases and indicators.
While many of us may have trouble saying methodological let alone typing it, we do have a knack for knowing if we are being hood winked by academic mumbo jumbo.
I did make every effort to concentrate but bearing in mind I no longer have the brain capacity to memorise my own postcode ( entitling me to some form of disability payment surely?) I found myself asking more questions than understanding answers.
Private social expenditure and effects of the tax system ? The man in the street wants to know how much of his tax is taken off him and then dished out in benefits to others. He won't worry whether the Government has taken his money by way of a VAT tax system , an income tax system, a tax on his dividend payments or a Government official coming to his door and holding a gun to his head, or whether Mervyn King printed the whole lot up and called it Quantitative Easing....he realises he's the poor bugger who always has to eventually pay the bill. On the other hand Private social expenditure sounds a bit like people spending their own money as opposed to Government benefits, and few will have a problem with that.
Any more of these dirty socialist tricks and we may have to think up an appropriately severe punishment for you - such as accompanying wilderbeeste on a visit to Bramall Lane
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 18:43:36 GMT
payments or a Government official coming to his door and holding Any more of these dirty socialist tricks and we may have to think up an appropriately severe punishment for you - such as accompanying wilderbeeste on a visit to Bramall Lane I wondered what I'd done to upset Alpine Joe. I don't hate Wednesday, honest! It's just that it's a 20 minute walk to Bramall Lane (admittedly an hour back because it's uphill) while a trip to Hillsborough would involve a walk to town and then a tram ride and I'd miss me tea on a Staurday afternoon. Re the benefits system, I can tell that, like Dave, Joe's not got past the first chapter of my book. I don't know why I bother sometimes! How am I expected to compete with the experts at the Express? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 19:24:18 GMT
wildebeeste It's very true that I've not started on the book yet  But in my defence I must say that is because I started reading the shorter articles first, such as 'Is the BBC middle class enough ?, and 'Aint football great'. I'm sure I'd be several chapters in by now if I hadn't allowed myself to get distracted. I'm glad to know you don't hate Wednesday; I was beginning to wonder when I noticed Milan Mandaric being referred to less than favourably twice in the same article. Once for sacking the clearly out of his depth Alan Irvine and secondly for putting a few pennies into a bank account that Happy 'Arry held in Monaco in the name of his pet dog. Best of luck with the VER application and a Happy New Year to you wildebeeste. Your wit and wisdom will be much appreciated on the Popside so the sooner you get the chance to become a regular the better. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2012 19:54:11 GMT
Thanks very much and a very Happy New Year to you too, Alpine Joe. I'd give Felix's articles on the LPJ a miss though; he don't half go on!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 0:24:06 GMT
I did make every effort to concentrate but bearing in mind I no longer have the brain capacity to memorise my own postcode ( entitling me to some form of disability payment surely?) I found myself asking more questions than understanding answers. Your postcode? I'll give you a clue: PL something or the other. Pictures taken from the Mayflower Stand on Wednesday? I rest my case. Greens under the bed...but clearly not in the political sense. Lord Beaverbrook? Wasn't he Hughie Green's real dad? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 29, 2012 8:55:42 GMT
wildebeeste I got up at 5am this morning and read most of your book. It is well written and by a man who's job has been to try and get the right levels of benefits for the people who are seeking them.
Your book has not changed most of the views I hold, I know households that are far better off than I am where no one in that household goes to work. I know a few driving around in brand new cars and even get their own marked out parking space in the road, who are as fit if not fitter than I am.
There are many and especially those who do not have children, or who don't get some doctor to state their child has this or that wrong with them so they can claim carers allowances to look after their own children, who do really struggle on state benefits. But there are plenty who know how to work the system and the example of a man getting over 40 grand a year to look after his family only tells me there is so much wrong with the system.
Up to £500 per a week for housing benefit? I wish I even earned that much before tax and I have everything to pay out of my wages with no help from anyone. If we stopped letting people come here just to get onto the benefits system, get housed before the very people who have lived and worked here, then maybe there would be more money available to go to the real needy people in this country. As a tax player I have no problems with some of the money I earn being taken to help those worse off, I do have a problem when I see people who are clearly better off not working, why should I help fund them?
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 29, 2012 9:40:33 GMT
If we stopped letting people come here just to get onto the benefits system, get housed before the very people who have lived and worked here, then maybe there would be more money available to go to the real needy people in this country. Dave, you're doing the ruling classes job for them: blaming other working class people for your situation. Can't you see how stupid that is? Come up to London and see where the nation's wealth really is being hoarded.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 11:21:35 GMT
Oh dear Dave. Thanks very much, genuinely, for glancing at the thing but you can't have grasped it all in one morning. It took me over a week to write it and another 3 or 4 to tweak it so a morning to read the bugger and take it all in is about as possible as..........well, as possible as expecting a nurse with no qualifications in mental health to assess the fitness for work of a claimant with paranoid schizophrenia, to choose just one example from my recent casebook. Lambeth Gull is happy to point out the myths your post perpetuates so there's no need for me to bang on. The benefits system is the one and only subject on which I can be sure I know what I am talking about but if someone approaches it from a different angle and with pre-conceived opinions which are already hard-wired then I suppose there's nothing I can do about it. There's an old cliche about there being none so blind as the man who refuses to see but since it is possible that this might also apply to me regarding certain subjects I shan't use it, and, besides, this is your forum and you seem like a nice guy. "Dog bites man" is not news but "Man bites dog" is so. This means you will read about rare and egregious cases of benefit fraud which crop up from time to time but not about the sheer misery of never having enough money to live on which is the norm for 99+% who are on means tested benefits. I'm just off to see my lad in Chesterfield this afternoon. It's not his fault that the shop where he worked went bust and shut down but at least since he has been signing on he's got his six-bedroomed house and new car to cheer him up.  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 29, 2012 14:01:59 GMT
There's an old cliche about there being none so blind as the man who refuses to see but since it is possible that this might also apply to me regarding certain subjects I shan't use it, and, besides, this is your forum and you seem like a nice guy. You got one thing right  I am a nice guy who would do anything to help anyone if it were possible. The TFF is not my forum, it belongs to its members, I just happen to be its founder and when I join in any debates, just give my own honest views and they may not always be right, but I'm always happy to be proved wrong if that is really the case. Working in the field so to speak, you do have a far greater knowledge of the benefit system, I could or would not dispute that. But I'm not blind and I know and have seen first hand some of the abuse of the system that does go on, I have seen those driving around in the 11 plate cars, put and take things out of them I do not think I could even lift, but somehow they manage to do it with their bad backs that ensures they never need to work and can have a nice new car every three years. Mind you one of those I know who must be half of my age, is now driving and old x reg around, so maybe he is one who has been found out and taken out of that loop. As I pointed out to Lambie, I did not join in this debate to be seen as some sort of benefit basher, I made my first post as I felt it should be pointed out, many working people have not had any pay rises for a good number of years now and have had to make cutbacks themselves. it might well be the case in a few months I will be posting on this thread that what I'm getting in benefits to live on is a joke, even more so when I have worked all my life and paid my fair dues into the system. But that is not the case right now and yes it does grate sometimes when you see more and more of the little you earn being taken away and everything going up in price, so much so you do wonder why you even bother to get up and go to work in the first place. How easy would it be to jump out of this situation and try my luck on benefits? after all believe me the gap is getting smaller by the day for the low paid workers in this country. What stops me is personal pride, being brought up to believe I need to support myself in this world and pay my own way, what I can't afford I go without. I'm sure there are plenty who might think that is a foolish thing to do now a days, but my whole life is based on sound values and principles and I'm not about to change any of that at my age. I just happen to think we also need to be thinking about the very hard working people who do not earn that much and do not have children they can claim money for, they are struggling right now and are having to go to work for that privilege. I'm sure you have fought many a worthy battle trying to get those who do need help, reading your book you sometimes lost the fight, but I take my hat of to you for trying to make the difference as there are plenty of needy people who need someone like you fighting in their corner. I'm very true to my birth sign Libra, I believe in equality fairness, but know that is never going to happen in most cases. The rich get richer and the poor poorer. But then if everyone was given the same amount of money, some would go on and make that money grow, others would piss it up against some wall. All I can do is try and live an honest and decent life and accept that so many things go on that are wrong but ones I can do nothing about. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 15:45:31 GMT
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 31, 2012 16:28:44 GMT
Its a shame its not the wife who suffers from headaches as then there sure would have been a big saving for the tax payers. More money in housing benefit alone than I even earn in a month, what is this country coming too Interesting reading the thoughts of working people who all know they are far worse of going to work than staying home knocking up children. |
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Jan 4, 2013 13:24:53 GMT
Maybe if the owners of certain newspaper groups paid full UK taxes, on profits made from this country, we wouldn't need to worry about it!! And as for X-reg cars - nothing wrong with them; mines even an Executive model and talks to me to remind me to take the hand-brake off etcetera! It's anyone's for £400 mind! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 16:52:31 GMT
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Jan 6, 2013 17:25:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2013 7:45:41 GMT
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But in my defence I must say that is because I started reading the shorter articles first, such as 'Is the BBC middle class enough ?, and 'Aint football great'.
I am a nice guy who would do anything to help anyone if it were possible. The TFF is not my forum, it belongs to its members, I just happen to be its founder and when I join in any debates, just give my own honest views and they may not always be right, but I'm always happy to be proved wrong if that is really the case. 
