|
Post by bristolgull on Sept 22, 2012 16:45:39 GMT
Thanks for the update chelston, let's hope the Craig injury not too serious. Room for improvement it seems.....
|
|
rjdgull
TFF member
Admin
Posts: 12,236
|
Post by rjdgull on Sept 22, 2012 16:52:33 GMT
Couldn't make it down for this one today, stats on BBC website suggest we were under the cosh and an equalizer was inevitable. Was this in fact the case? Under the cosh for 44 minutes of the second half with the Brewers 'keeper not having (that I can recall) one save to make either. Thank gawd they scored so late, as if they had scored 10 minutes earlier they would have won. Apart from the new People Champion (Thompson) our wingers Stevens or Bodin had little (if no) effect on the game. Hampered by Craig going off late in the first half. Sure there will be better match reports later and Arygle won 3 - 2 after being 2 nil down. Nico had a shot in the second half which their keeper had to palm away when he had five minutes of pressure. Not sure how good Burton are but we couldn't gain much possession and had little outlet. Burton seemed to attack constantly down the left where Maghoma supported by McCrory were a constant threat but Oastler was on top of his game today. I think Thompson must be started now, his time has come. Not sure how badly Craig was injured but there is probably a free space on the wing next week. Our goal was lucky in that the referee didn't give a foul on Zola in the centre circle and we went on to score with the assist from Nathan taking a slight deflection.
|
|
petef
Match Room Manager
Posts: 4,627
Member is Online
|
Post by petef on Sept 22, 2012 16:59:47 GMT
I am just totally lost for words after that performance, hang on a minute the word performance is an exaggeration! If I thought that every game at Plainmoor was going to be this awful I would give up after watching this absoloutly dire display but then I think back to just a few weeks a go when we played a good Rochdale outfit off the park with sweeping, committed attacking football and hopefully my desire will be there again for the next match. Of course it will I've done it for decades now its a habit of a lifetime isn't it? Well for sure mine and many others desire to turn up next time took one huge knock today. From the first minute we just didn't look up for it and the match was played in the air by both sets of players with Burton edging possession but doing little to hurt us. We have one break away Craig hits a diagonal cross which the Burton defenders failed to deal with and we were one up. Surely this would lift us and we would push on. Not a chance we continued to wonder around in a malaise as if it were some meaningless pre season firendly and the game just continued to deteriorate into an excuse for a football match with both sets of players guilty of hapless passing and poor play. It really was that bad and I felt like going home at half time to do something more productive with my time but resisted the urge. and hoped things would improve in the second period. Wrong again as the game deteriorated even further with the added treat that the Ref wanted to get in on the act to annoy us even more with some awful and bizarre decisions 90% of which seemed to go against us. Finally he eventually gave one in our favour and it was the highlight of he afternoon for the crowd as we all cheered this incredible decision. The cheering continued as the half and match drew to an end with Burton finally getting their reward for persistence if little else with the inevitable equaliser in the final minutes of play. Il ooked up to the heavens and asked myself why the hell was I still here watching this, of course I knew the answer, we all do dont we? MoM for me was Arron Downes with Saah close behind followed by the lonely and forlorn figure of Rene Howe . Thompson also desrvs some credit for at least looking like he wanted it. The rest including Nico and Mans un point. We were simply tha awful...
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Sept 22, 2012 17:36:51 GMT
I only got to hear part of the second half on the radio as I drove home from Hookhills this afternoon. It did not sound very good and the reason when I parked my car, I switched off the radio. It is still a point and we still have only lost one game this season, but it is worrying to hear fans like Petef, almost wishing he had not bothered to turn up today.
I keep going on about the cost of football these days, but fail to entertain at home and you will see soon fans voting with their feet. I have not seen the team play this season, so I will have to ask you all, what is wrong and what do we need to do to fix it.
|
|
|
Post by Swanny on Sept 22, 2012 18:29:17 GMT
That was the poorest home performance I've seen this season. How on earth we led for so long was some sort of miracle as Torquay were under such sustained pressure for long periods. Torquay offered very little as an attacking force and you have to give the defence much credit how it survived attack after attack from Burton. Surely it would be a matter of time before Torquay caved in? I thought Poke (sponsors MOTM) and Downes had outstanding games and the rest of the defence were not far behind. But in attack poor old Howe valiantly did his best up front vitually single handedly. Only Thompson when he came on in the second half gave him any assistance in attacking Burton. Once again Thompson used his pace to great effect down the right wing. Stevens, who replaced the injured Craig, and bodin just did not get into the game at all.
I sat in the Bristow Bench today and my first observation about 2:40pm was how pathetically small the crowd looked. Would it even reach 2,000? It turned out the crowd was 2,438 with officially 145 from Burton with many supporters favouring the Bristow Bench over the sparsley looking Family Stand. At least the new seats in the Family Stand looked nice - there were enough empty ones! The Pop side made a decent effort in chanting with a drummer but I have to say those sitting in the Bristow Bench are mostly a really reserved and quiet bunch. They clap along to "Yellow Army" but refrain from singing it. Most odd?
Torquay goal on 18 minutes was set up from Craig who whipped a dangerous low cross into the box. It was deflected to Howe unmarked who calmly finished from about 12 yards! That was Torquay's first real effort on goal and they scored. Burton had 4 or 5 dangerous opportunities in the first half that they squandered. Poke made some good saves including a double save. Poke also tipped a free-kick onto the bar. Zola missed a close range shot and Torquay led 1-0 at the break. Torquay's only other efforts in the first half were off-target headers from corners.
The second half can only be described as an onslaught by Burton who were basically camped in Torquay's half. They had numerous corners and dangerous free-kicks. It has to be said the referee did not do torquay too many favours with his decision making. One Burton header hit the post and rolled along the line but was cleared! The was loads of last ditch desperate defending by Torquay and cedit to the players for that but the ball coming back and surely Torquay could not survive all that pressure? Thompson replacing Bodin finally relieved some pressure by making his trademark sprinting runs down the right wing. Howe himself made one great sprinting run down the right wing to open up burton but he had little support. Nicholson finally made their keeper make a save by shooting from distance that the keeper parried. Torquay had one or two corners but Burton finally got their deserved equalizer. Another header hit the post but this time Zola scored the rebound from close range. Torquay hung on for a point.
So a match which should have been something like 3-1 to Burton ended as a draw. Great credit to our defence and keeper but as an attacking force it never got going. In the last 15 minutes the home crowd were making their own entertainment by loudly cheering every decision that went our way as the referee did appear to favour Burton. That said Torquay were lucky not to concede a penalty in the second from a couple of late looking challenges. At least we got a point today after being second best for most of the game. Not good entertainment from a Torquay perspective.
|
|
|
Post by phipsy on Sept 22, 2012 18:31:59 GMT
lucky to get away with a point today. bloody awful game, but then after my 58 th season i have games as bad many many times before. it seems we are badly missing eunon from midfield. we were totally over run there. nathan craig looks very promising, unfortunatley had to go off too early in the game. we have just not got enough cultured players in the middle of the park to get possession and ease the pressure on our defence. there is now a lot of mutterings about billy bodin and not being worth the 70,000 we paid for him. well if you are looking for a physical type of game from him, forget it. he is still very young and has bags of talent, but he needs decent passes not punts up in the air.
|
|
paulr
TFF member
Posts: 451
|
Post by paulr on Sept 22, 2012 18:38:04 GMT
Dave we are not a bad team when we actually attack the opposition and don't sit back inviting them on to us. We started with Nathan Craig on the left wing and Billy Bodin on the right. Surely we should play a winger on the wing? Unless Macklin is still injured why not start with attacking intent when we are the HOME team and play him or Thompson from the start? Macklins form was excellent before his injury so why not play him? If Stevens and Craig are to get the nod every time before him then we are going nowhere this season. As soon as Thompson came on we looked more balanced and put Burton on the back foot. We really must be more attacking in line up at home. Surely this was proved by our performance against Rochdale. It really is time that Martin Ling sat up in the Stand and saw the same game that we see.
|
|
|
Post by loyalgull on Sept 22, 2012 18:54:39 GMT
that was god damned awful,very painful and boring to watch as well.Burton deserved at least a point if not the lot.Quite what we were trying to achieve today on that performance god only knows. Burton played with pace,strength teamwork and talked to each other regularly throughout the match our lot nothing.Downes and howe gave it a go,the others should be ashamed,it was that bad.Thompson injected pace and a freshness to us a little bit,why lingy doesnt start him god only knows.Howe ran his heart out with no service or quality up to him,this style of play is very uneasy on the eye,i dont enjoy it one bit.Craig started promisingly again but his injury has scuppered him for a while.It was horrible,no other way to describe it
|
|
|
Post by lambethgull on Sept 22, 2012 20:02:41 GMT
The stats don't look great tbh, Sky say we only had 2 attempts on target all game I'm assuming one of those shots didn't come from Mr Howe's backside this time? Lingy's tactics away from home are good. It doesn't make for great entertainment for the neutral, but the manager isn't employed to lay on entertainment for neutrals. Away from home, fans will put up with a lot if the result is there after 90 minutes. I'm not too sure if the same is true at home...even though the fact remains that we were seconds away from bagging another 3 points.
|
|
chelstongull
TFF member
Posts: 6,759
Favourite Player: Jason Fowler
|
Post by chelstongull on Sept 22, 2012 20:44:03 GMT
The stats don't look great tbh, Sky say we only had 2 attempts on target all game I'm assuming one of those shots didn't come from Mr Howe's backside this time? That sounds about right - Rene's goal and a Nico attempt in the second half. Lucky to hang on for a point.
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2012 8:31:59 GMT
Dave we are not a bad team when we actually attack the opposition and don't sit back inviting them on to us. ( I do not think for one minute we are a bad team Paul, we must be doing some things right as we still have only been beaten once this season. But it does seem in this game, we did sit back and play deep in our own half and that’s the reason Burton were able to mount attack after attack. Even the best defensives finally crack when they are under constant attack and it does sound to me that if Burton had been able to score earlier, they would have gone on to win the match and the three points. As I have said I’m not in a position to make any comments on the players etc, so have to ask are we playing with one up front as we only have one recognized striker? Or is this just the way Martin Ling sets up the team? Paul Buckle often played with one up front and one problem I felt he always had, was if he felt he was right, he would stick with it no matter what until in the end he had to concede it was not working. I would hope Martin Ling is not afraid to be honest and say playing one up front at home is not working and make the changes that are necessary. A win yesterday would have seen us move up to 8th in the table, but the draw saw us move down from 13th to 14th place. You traveled down from Taunton yesterday to watch the game, yes it was a poor performance and be honest, would you keep coming every home game for the rest of this season, if that is what you were going to see dished up? The stats don't look great tbh, Sky say we only had 2 attempts on target all game I'm assuming one of those shots didn't come from Mr Howe's backside this time? Lingy's tactics away from home are good. It doesn't make for great entertainment for the neutral, but the manager isn't employed to lay on entertainment for neutrals. Away from home, fans will put up with a lot if the result is there after 90 minutes. I'm not too sure if the same is true at home...even though the fact remains that we were seconds away from bagging another 3 points. I thought we went to football to be entertained, have I got that wrong? I’m not sure away fans put up with anymore than home fans and I have read many away reports on here in the past, to know that is the case. Just how many home fans attend away games? I would suggest most of the fans who do attend away games are exiles who are taking the opportunity to see their team as they do not have so far to travel as they would attending a match at Plainmoor. I have always felt very proud of our great away support, we have great fans based in London and all over the country, I do feel even they deserve after making efforts to get to away games, they get entertained and come away afterwards feeling at least the team tried to win the match. Yes at the end of the day it is the result that matters but I don’t care who you are, no one in the right mind would keep paying out good money to watch boring, poor football where we seem content to just not lose the match and do very little to go on and win it. Before I go any further I will say all our fans attending away fans are as equal an important as those who mostly attend home games, I have said that and do mean it as I believe it to be true and do not want to get another debate started like we have had in the past where some suggested home fans were more important, they are not. But it is the case that it’s only the money the home fans hand over at the gate, that goes to the club( cup games being the exception) I happen to think yesterdays gate was poor and I do wonder if some fans left the ground yesterday vowing to not return until the football improves. I know the club thought our new stand would play a part in attendances rising, I never felt that would be the case, its winning teams and ones that play good entertaining football, that see more fans willing to pay to watch them I myself hope very soon to be able to start attending some home games again, not all as that is not going to be possible, I would hate to think for my efforts all I was going to be treated to was displays like yesterday. If that was the case even I a fan of so many years, would have to consider if I should carry on making the cuts I need to elsewhere, just to watch what was on offer. Back to the game, are we just missing the players who have moved on this season? Have we not replaced them like for like? Do we need to look to bring in some new players, or are the ones we got good enough and all we need to do is change our tactics?
|
|
Rags
TFF member
Posts: 1,210
|
Post by Rags on Sept 23, 2012 8:32:10 GMT
Lingy's tactics away from home are good. It doesn't make for great entertainment for the neutral, but the manager isn't employed to lay on entertainment for neutrals. Away from home, fans will put up with a lot if the result is there after 90 minutes. I'm not too sure if the same is true at home...even though the fact remains that we were seconds away from bagging another 3 points. I don't think Lingy's tactics at home are the same as the ones he employs away; it's just that the players failed to implement his tactics yesterday and we ended up looking like the away team whereas we should have been storming forward like the home team.
|
|
|
Post by lambethgull on Sept 23, 2012 9:23:46 GMT
I thought we went to football to be entertained, have I got that wrong? I can only speak for myself, but it's pretty much always about the result for me. How could it be any other way? One man's "entertainment" is another man's "boring" anyway, look how the Spanish national team divide fans for example. Sure, watching us come back from 2-0 down to draw or win is exciting, watching us spray it around and win comfortably is great too. But a win is a win, and the nerves set in when the opposition break forward or apply pressure. Tuesday night's game against Wimbledon was a case in point. No classic of a game for sure; a goal courtesy of Rene's backside, a bare handful of other half-chances and poor opposition. Did I go home moaning that I hadn't been "entertained"? Like f*** I did! 3 points away from home was an excellent evening's work, and well worth witnessing.
|
|
rjdgull
TFF member
Admin
Posts: 12,236
|
Post by rjdgull on Sept 23, 2012 9:42:18 GMT
Back to the game, are we just missing the players who have moved on this season? Have we not replaced them like for like? Do we need to look to bring in some new players, or are the ones we got good enough and all we need to do is change our tactics? I think Olejnik and Ellis have been adequately replaced by Poke and Downes and this is borne out by only losing the one game and that by a solitary goal. Eunan is a bit more difficult to replace and while Morris is playing a lot better in the middle, he is no Eunan and coupled with having a previously poor season does mean that certain sections of the crowd are getting on his back. Rene has been isolated up front but it must be remembered that there have been a lot of injuries on the wing with Danny, 10 goals from last year and Macklin, looking very good in pre season both out for much of the season so far. Bodin hasn't fired like we know he can but he is still young and not the finished product yet and it must be remembered that he didn't play at Wembley with Crewe last year. However, he did choose us over other clubs as he knew he would get game time with us and will be a star in the making. So basically I don't think it is the tactics but more a case of the injury hit midfield five not quite firing at present. We had 16 points from 15 games last season and were second in April so too early to become unduly worried, particularly as we have only lost one. Once the midfield starts to click and becomes more of an attacking force, which with three younger players coming good which should make it happen, then those draws will start to become wins. Next month looks better with four home games and I think our season will start to really get going then!
|
|
Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
|
Post by Dave on Sept 23, 2012 9:47:08 GMT
I thought we went to football to be entertained, have I got that wrong? I can only speak for myself, but it's pretty much always about the result for me. How could it be any other way? One man's "entertainment" is another man's "boring" anyway, look how the Spanish national team divide fans for example. Sure, watching us come back from 2-0 down to draw or win is exciting, watching us spray it around and win comfortably is great too. But a win is a win, and the nerves set in when the opposition break forward or apply pressure. Tuesday night's game against Wimbledon was a case in point. No classic of a game for sure; a goal courtesy of Rene's backside, a bare handful of other half-chances and poor opposition. Did I go home moaning that I hadn't been "entertained"? Like f*** I did! 3 points away from home was an excellent evening's work, and well worth witnessing. I fully agree that winning the match is what it is about and we have all come home from games feeling not as bad as we might about the team’s performance, if at the end of the day we somehow won the match. As I have said its winning teams that stand the much better chance of holding on to those floating fans, but play poorly and not get the result, is one sure way of making their minds up about coming to the next match. We have all seen seasons in the past where we looked like finishing nowhere, then put on a late great run that gave us the chance of reaching the play-offs at least. I can think of one such season under Bateson where that happened and the gates went up a great deal for those last remaining matches of the season. So much so it resulted in home fans being locked out of the match due to so many turning up. I know Bateson played a part in that by selling off some of the home fans areas to away fans (due to the fact their team would have been celebrating promotion at our ground) but it was the fact we were winning games, that woke up the stay always. I know it’s slightly different because as football fans we have the club deeply in our hearts, but consider this. Let’s say the local theatre is under threat of closing due to lack of paying customers. A plea is put out and as locals do not want to lose their theatre, they start attending in extra numbers. But all they get treated to is boring productions that nearly send them to sleep. How long do you think they will want to carry on making the effort to attend? Even more so when they weigh up the costs and time commitments. I’m not suggesting we are playing boring football, I simply do not know as I have not watched us play, but reading the views I have, I do not think we are playing the sort of football that makes the floaters want to come back for more. Our gates have not really alerted that much for a number of seasons, I’m sure we have won a number of new fans and if that is the case, that means we have also lost a number of regular fans. Yes cost has played a part, but for some they will make the sacrifices elsewhere it they are getting good entertainment and enjoyment from watching the team play. How many times have we watched games and enjoyed them, even when we ended up losing the game? For many it’s all about commitment, effort and the will to try and win the game against all the odds. Look at how many non-league teams raise their game in a cup match against a team in the football league. It’s that sort of mentality the players need to be sent out with in every home match and sorry, but if all that was on offer was a team that scores early then sits back for the next 85 minutes, that’s not the sort of football I want to be watching and paying for.
|
|