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Post by lambrettagull on Sept 7, 2012 8:26:12 GMT
If Lingo was talking about one situation throughout, he would be inconsistent in what he says. But surely the statements he has made refer to several different scenarios at different times, and therefore he is not inconsistent. He has given a statement that relates to that particular point at that particular time. If you transfer that statement as the answer to another situation entirely you not only do Mr Ling an injustice but confuse the issue. Also, money is an issue with this club. There is no need for the Manager to state it repeatedly. I just take it for granted that some decisions, when there seems to be no clear logic to conclude, are due to lack of money.
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Post by stuartB on Sept 7, 2012 8:44:54 GMT
If Lingo was talking about one situation throughout, he would be inconsistent in what he says. But surely the statements he has made refer to several different scenarios at different times, and therefore he is not inconsistent. He has given a statement that relates to that particular point at that particular time. If you transfer that statement as the answer to another situation entirely you not only do Mr Ling an injustice but confuse the issue. Also, money is an issue with this club. There is no need for the Manager to state it repeatedly. I just take it for granted that some decisions, when there seems to be no clear logic to conclude, are due to lack of money. very true but also we are not aware of what the wage demands are from these players to come down to a back water (footballing wise) like Torquay. Byron Anthony may be a good player, but if he is being unrealistic with his demands and our small budget, something has to give. We are all guessing and at the end of the day we must trust the manager to make the right decisions
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Sept 7, 2012 10:04:54 GMT
I suppose we are all guessing or speculating but I think the money issue may be a bit of a red herring. A player out of contract in September is going to just want to get a contract and put himself in the shop window - if he does well can look to extend and increase his wages or move to another club on a higher wage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2012 12:43:25 GMT
I tend to spend time each day watching BBC News 24 until it eventually does my head in. I'm not sure if it's the repetitiveness or the breathless coverage of the occasional "breaking news" story that ultimately amounts to nothing much.
There are times when football forums are similar. Something happens, we're not sure of its significance but we rush to analyse. The Byron Anthony story this week appears to fit this category.
Traillists come and go in football. It was ever thus and Jon is surely correct in saying that we - just like every other club - fail to offer contracts to the overwhelming majority. The difference now is that the process is more transparent and open to scrutiny. The club organises a development game; the media officer needs to base a story around it. We need an angle to discuss. Four players on trial makes for a good story. So be it.
But what is the significance of the "breaking news" story that we won't be taking out interest in Anthony further? Probably very little if we go through the season strong in central defence. Or if there's another defender in the pipeline who we happen to sign in the next fortnight. Yet, turn the story around and - let's assume - Anthony goes to somewhere like Cheltenham and has a storming season whilst we leak goals like a sieve. Ah, that one will run and run. But if we have an iffy season and Anthony only ends up at Bath City, what's the angle then?
The argument that he should have been strongly considered because of his experience appears a compelling one. Yet, unfortunately. it's one I've heard from people in recent years when I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get jobs: "I'm really surprised you didn't get it. With your experience they should have gobbled you up!" Well, yes, no, maybe. Perhaps I've got thirty years experience in the same area of work because I've just about been good enough to survive? Thirty years of doing the minimum and taking the money? Actually I'd like to think I've contributed rather more than that but, however I spin the CV and the interview spiel, I can't quite hide the fact that there hasn't been enough variety during those thirty years. Consequently somebody with a third of my experience may have been able to offer more diversity and greater achievement during their time to date.
Now I'm not saying it's the same with football but I think we can overplay the value of experience. Potential is important: I may do a better job than you on day one but you may be outstripping me by day 100. I may have been around a bit but I'm sure I've picked up the odd bad habit and complacency may have slipped in here and there. You may only be 80% as good as me - if it's possible to measure these things - but, what with your potential, willingness to learn, adaptability and relative cheapness - you may prove to be the better bet. You may also fit the team more than I.
Again, not all of that is relevant to football. Yet, for all the HR stuff about points scores and robust fairness, that's the reality of selection. What's more, the criteria may change week to week, game to game. And, like the supposedly transparent HR feedback process, it's highly unlikely that anybody is going to tell you the complete story.
So, at the moment, I'm not sure if the signing of - for example - Tom Cruise and the non-signing of Byron Anthony are big negatives in Martin Ling's profit and loss account. All I hope is that the development of Kirtys McKenzie proves to be a positive. As ever, we'll see in due course and the debate has been interesting. But, like News 24, there will be something else along shortly, even if it's only the weather.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 7, 2012 16:37:46 GMT
An excellent post Nick and all so true on so many fronts. You often get bad news days when news editors are looking to run any story and sometimes they end up being the most amusing story of the week. I have already said on another thread our club being run the way it is these days, makes finding topics ( football wise at least) we can have a good debate over, hard to come by.
Gone are the days when Buckle has fallen out with another player type threads, or the manager does not know what he is doing and should leave. We have done all the favourite player, favourite game threads and so to be honest, it is good to see such a good debate in progress once again here on the TFF.
The thing is we all want the same thing in the end, a good well run football club to support and a competitive team out on the pitch, that hopefully will win promotion along with some good cup runs. It matters not if we are able to go to games, or in my case forced at this time to be an armchair supporter, seeing the squad strengthened to give the team the best possible chance of success, is something we would all want to see happen.
You are so right when you say if we took a look at a player and decided not to sign him, only for him to go and have a cracking season elsewhere; fans would be asking why we did not sign him when we had the chance.
On the strength of it Byron Anthony looks like a player who we could well do with as we can’t always rely on first year pros to do the required job. But as has been stated, we do not know even if Martin Ling had decided to try and sign him, what his wage demands were.
These days its not just about how good a footballer a player might be, working with small squads its important the player would fit in and also be able to play the way the manager would want him to play. Temperament is so very important, we have had enough of those stroppy young players in the past, who storm off in a huff, if he did not make the first team, or was substituted during the game.
We all know the dangers of over playing young players and while I do not think Martin Ling would over play our younger ones, it only takes a few injuries or suspensions, to find that happening. There is also the real danger of younger players suffering a loss of confidence due to having to play a few to many games and then making those costly mistakes.
Martin Ling to date has proved he is a good manager and he is the best one to make those decisions on which players he wants to sign. I’m sure he is more than satisfied with the decision he took as far as Byron Anthony is concerned, after all, he is in a results business and get that wrong and its time to look for another job.
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Sept 7, 2012 18:58:19 GMT
Either Ling's not really in for a centre-back or Anthony asked for too much for the role Ling had in mind for him...... OR Ling thought he didn't fit the bill. Presumably McG didnt think he offered that much either or he wouldnt have been released ?
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Sept 8, 2012 8:39:54 GMT
McGhee let Zebroski and Stanley go too, though, and we know they're not bad players. From memory, McGhee isn't so much a fan of pretty football
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 9, 2012 9:37:16 GMT
Anyone bored by the toing and froing between me and Junior Brucie (aka James) on this thread will be pleased to know we had a nice friendly chat yesterday. I have explained to him that I am right and he is wrong. I have also now handed over Barty's huge pile of WSC magazines, so he'll be too busy reading those to whinge on here for a few months.
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Rags
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Post by Rags on Sept 10, 2012 6:44:46 GMT
Anyone bored by the toing and froing between me and Junior Brucie (aka James) on this thread will be pleased to know we had a nice friendly chat yesterday. I have explained to him that I am right and he is wrong. I personally witnessed this event, although to call it a chat would require some sort of input from James and unfortunately he couldn't get a word in edgeways! ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 7:09:12 GMT
I was two hundred miles away at the time but, yes, that's how I saw the chat between Jon and Jon, er, I mean James.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 10, 2012 22:18:13 GMT
I personally witnessed this event, although to call it a chat would require some sort of input from James and unfortunately he couldn't get a word in edgeways! ;D Out of respect to James, I wanted to explain to him in detail why he was wrong and I was right. It would not have been right to tell him he was wrong and not explain why, would it?
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