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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 14:24:47 GMT
 Most likely the final TrustWatch of the season. But before you reach for the hankies, remember it should be back bigger and better than ever next season, and don't discount a 'Summer Special' appearing either. Today, we return to Chester and York City. And with our relegation most definitely 'pending', perhaps choosing two clubs worse off than ourselves is no bad thing. Floridagull But firstly let's start by thanking Floridagull for underlining just why TrustWatch is so important on a Forum where the official TUST message is forever pinned prominently at the top of the discussions. It's similar on every other Forum, and while the TUST propaganda machine never sleeps, and appears to be aided and abetted by Riviera Macron, Putin-ick at the BBC, and one or two Left Wing journo's in the national Press, it's important that whatever small voices are still able to oppose them can continue to be heard. If the day ever comes when a decision has to be made as to whether TUST should get their chance, would it be right to decide such a matter based only on what we know having had our heads filled for years exclusively with the pro TUST message ? Surely better to have at least had some exposure to the realities of Trust ownership, and what it can mean in practice, before delivering your club into the hands of the extreme left ? Those cuddly Socialists claiming to want nothing more than to bring the 'community' together, can present a very different face when they've actually got their hands on the levers of power. We already know that 'Community Ownership' in reality means 'Trust members Only'. Let's learn from the lessons of history before we ever decide it may not be so bad to give the Militants their chance. Whether it was Stalin purging his enemies in the millions, or the Corynistas at present singling out a section of Britain's population for particularly nasty treatment now that the Far Left rule Labour, it's a character trait that shows itself time and again Since York's Trust emerged victorious from the Battle of Mllthorpe School (see previous TrustWatch) that football club's fortunes seem to have nosedived. I think it's four defeats in a row now. York will also be applying good old fashioned Trust housekeeping principles soon. Expenditure limited to what's coming in. Perhaps we'll check back next season to see how they're getting along with that link - Purse Strings Due To Tighten At York
And a very similar approach taken at Chester FC, where the Trust Militants who run the show there, persued their Manager, Marcus Bignot, out into the car park in order to sack him. Is it any wonder that publications such as the Non-League Paper examine the way the Trust conduct themselves in the running of Chester City and conclude: 'this isn’t far off being the blueprint for how not to run a football club'.And the NLP went on to say much more about what they term the 'Chester mess': 'There are supporters who will run through a brick wall to defend their club, but the actions of the Chester board this week have tested the patience of even the most loyal Blues fans'.'Relegated last weekend, the fate of Marcus Bignot had already been confirmed with the announcement that the former Grimsby chief would leave the Deva at the end of the season'.'Or so we thought! Following an academy match on Wednesday evening, Bignot was sacked in the club’s car park. It was an utterly graceless way to treat a man with a track record that Chester can only dream of replacing next year'link - NLP's Analysis Of Trust Run Chester FC
For anyone contemplating 'maybe TUST should get their chance', I'd urge them to consider whether making such a decision having existed exclusively on a diet of pro-TUST views, would be either advisable or in the best interests of the club. The reality of Trust ownership, or Militant actions taken against their opponents must not be prevented from being brought to the attention of Torquay United supporters. Demand that the few dissenting voices that survive are neither persecuted or silenced.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Apr 19, 2018 15:14:45 GMT
If you did a word count on the ‘Future of TUST’ thread, you probably account for more than everyone else combined, AJ. To think, if you hadn’t been silenced by those imaginary militants, it could be more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 15:33:56 GMT
If you did a word count on the ‘Future of TUST’ thread, you probably account for more than everyone else combined, AJ. To think, if you hadn’t been silenced by those imaginary militants, it could be more. Haha, that's probably true, Rob. The workload just doesn't get shared around as evenly as I'd like. Sadly, I had to use the edit facility to cull virtually the whole of the York City portion of my above post....so be thankful it wasn't longer. The positive side for me, is that by enticing you here, it keeps you away from 'What Are You Listening To ?' where your latest selections made my ears bleed  Enjoy the fine weather. AJ. |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Apr 22, 2018 7:13:54 GMT
IMPORTANT TUST UPDATE
CONTACT WITH CLARKE OSBOURNE
Writing this before this afternoon's match, I have to say I am waiting with trepidation to listen to the commentary, and check the other National League matches from 3pm. It would be great if we were still in with a glimmer of a chance by the time we get to Tuesday’s game with Guiseley. My hat goes off to those loyal bunch of supporters who are travelling all the way up to Hartlepool today, with the risk of a long sad journey home. Hoping, though, they have a safe trip and 3 points to bring back with them!
MEETING CLARKE OSBORNE
As previously reported, we have been pressing for a face to face meeting with Mr Osborne for some time. We have long held the view that it is essential as a trust representing the views of a large proportion of the Torquay United Supporters that we engage directly with Mr Osborne in order to open up a line of communication, given the absence of a local board of directors. Constant speculation as to the long term plans of the owner is damaging to the club and the community. If we can gain access to Mr Osborne to get to understand his position and perhaps help and influence his course of action then that can only be a positive move.
I am therefore pleased to report that yesterday, I managed to make contact with him directly by telephone for the first time. As a result, I was able to have a lengthy conversation lasting for around an hour. The call was not expected by Mr Osborne and therefore it was particularly pleasing that he was willing to give me such an amount of time without prior notice. I am pleased to report this conversation was personable, yet honest and frank from both of our perspectives.
This initial dialogue has enabled me to clear up some misconceptions he had regarding TUST. It provided me with the opportunity to outline our aims, role and remit as a trust. It was also clarified, to some extent, as to the way we feel we can help our club, but with the common aim of securing it's long term sustainability aligned with good governance. It was also pointed out in detail that we have considered the many possible future scenarios for our club, without as yet knowing for sure which one will manifest itself, ranging from a clear new stadium plan to the unthinkable position of administration.
Mr Osborne is also now aware that we actually have a very comprehensive understanding of the economic implications of running a football club, and that we have a team of very professional members, contacts and football organisations who would be more than willing to assist us in helping our club if there ever, regrettably, arose a time of necessity due to an untenable crisis. We sincerely hope that this never comes to fruition.
He remarked that he has received very positive and encouraging feedback from the club's senior staff in relation to the structured dialogue held between TUST and the club locally through our joint monthly meetings. Also, he was very enthusiastic with the joint community outreach initiative we are progressing with the backing of the Premier League Fans Foundation.
To conclude, Mr Osborne has agreed to meet us, members of your board, for a face to face meeting in the next few weeks, when he anticipates being in the area. We will inform you, when we have arranged an exact date at which point we will invite your feedback (please feel free to email us, or talk to us), in order to reflect and pass on the consensus of your opinions to him. I would imagine that this meeting, hopefully, will take place at the end of the season when our league position will have been confirmed. Although realistically, and sadly, it may well have been by the time you get to read this!
In summary, we are encouraged to have taken an important step at this time to engage directly with Mr Osborne. I have made it clear that we have no hidden agenda. We are solely interested in ensuring the long term sustainability and future for our beloved club and a path back to where we belong on the footballing ladder.
Michel Thomas
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simonb
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Post by simonb on Apr 22, 2018 8:25:15 GMT
Well done in getting some dialogue - I hope that some positives can be found. I am still more than a little sceptical given CO’s track record but sincerely hope next season will see a turn around - there is one hell of a long way to go!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 10:59:34 GMT
Firstly congratulations to the uncharacteristically rebellious Chelstongull in selecting this as his thread of choice in which to post the TUST update. I fully back Chelston's actions in highlighting the contempt many feel not only for the cobweb encrusted, unloved and unused 'TUST Update' thread that was pinned and imposed at the top of the Board in such a Stalinist way with no consultation with the membership. Put to the vote this scandalous 'pinning' would never have won the assent of the TFF rank and file. Unpin that neglected monstrosity and let threads such as the often used and much loved 'The future Of TUST' rise to the top where they truly belong. Chelston has lit the torch of rebellion, I salute his courage. Simonb's healthy scepticism is also a big improvement on the pig headed opposition that is sometimes exhibited particularly within the Militant community. Let's see some positive steps forward over the Summer months. Not only in assembling a strong and promotion chasing squad, capable of tearing the little NLS teams apart next season, but also off the field, as the new local board take up their positions. Is it too much to hope that TUST can be brought more fully under the GI umbrella and given a presence on the local board ? For the moment I'm hopeful that the long discussions and further meetings planned might be signs that the way is being paved for just such a thing. Fingers crossed . |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Apr 22, 2018 13:42:23 GMT
Firstly congratulations to the uncharacteristically rebellious Chelstongull in selecting this as his thread of choice in which to post the TUST update. First thread I found that had the word TUST in the title  |
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 22:06:42 GMT
 Well it's the title of the thread, so just what is the future of TUST likely to be ??. And will that future direction be very much decided by the May 10th meeting, which I'm sure you've all read about now that the TUST Update thread has suddenly spluttered back into life. Think back a few weeks, and we'll all remember that Uncle Clarke was at home enjoying the peace and quiet of Saturday morning (with no afternoon match he had to attend ), nose buried in his Daily Mail, when the telephone rang and he was silly enough to answer it. It seems that Clarke then endured a one hour audio lesson in 'Teach Yourself TUST' 'This initial dialogue has enabled me to clear up some misconceptions he had regarding TUST. It provided me with the opportunity to outline our aims, role and remit as a trust. It was also clarified, to some extent, as to the way we feel we can help our club, but with the common aim of securing it's long term sustainability aligned with good governance. It was also pointed out in detail that we have considered the many possible future scenarios for our club'Yes folks, he's such a good listener, and he enjoyed learning about TUST so much that he just can't get enough. To the extent that it will require no less than THREE ' members of your Trust Board' who will 'meet with Mr Osborne to outline in more detail the objectives of TUST' on May 10th. Yep, no posting him a link to the Supporters Direct website, or forwarding a selection of old copies of TUST newsletters.....this calls for THREE members of the TUST top brass. Now if this was April 1st i think everyone would immediately cotton on. But even as I'm posting on May 1st, it's scarcely any more believable that Osborne is volunteering for hours of TUST schooling. It's a crucial time for TUST, only yesterday evening while reading a thread on another site, two members declared they were ceasing their subscriptions. I wonder if TUST are already looking to next season with trepidation ?. A successful TUFC on the pitch, crowds flocking back to watch winning football, prominent members of the business community backing the club as they join the local board, signs of the ongoing investment everywhere you look, right down to including a refurbished Boots & Laces, promotion capable squad exciting the fan base, and a spirit of cooperation with the council bringing major projects ever closer. Leaving TUST marginalised, declining, looking like rebels whose cause is becoming an after thought. Militant views now badly out of sync with the dynamic forward thinking that's powering the club forward towards 2020. So what is the May 10th meeting REALLY going to be about ?. CO offering to answer some questions off the cuff and THREE TUST board members required to take turns pressing the button on the tape recorder ? Or a final chance for some serious grovelling from TUST if they want to be allowed onto that local board ? If they remain on the outside, when things are moving apace on the inside, their relevance will diminish even further. With the good times returning those London based Left Wing journalists will be far less interested in providing a platform for bashing Clarke Osborne. And the market for stories about old speedway tracks from decades ago is very very limited. TUST need to get this right. Given what we know will be happening over the Summer, TUST need to use this meeting to go all out for a local board place. They're taking a serious number of personnel along, so don't waste your time on questions about interest charged to Bristol Rovers in the 1970's or 80's. . It could be now or never for TUST so let's hope those THREE board members make optimum use of this meeting with our Chairman. That they show a willingness to shun the Militant soapbox and exhibit a spirit of cooperation which can surely be achieved without compromising a sceptical viewpoint as to Clarke Osborne's motives.
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simonb
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Post by simonb on May 2, 2018 6:57:06 GMT
The only soapbox spouting militant seems to be AJ.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on May 2, 2018 20:09:58 GMT
The only soapbox spouting militant seems to be AJ. Indeed, but it's all commonsense that he's 'spouting', unlike the stuff from the self-appointed fans' voice, that the power seekers profess to be. Common sense would likely involve AJ acknowledging that Osborne has never built a brand new stadium. You might want to remind yourself of that too, Flo. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2018 23:28:54 GMT
A successful TUFC on the pitch, crowds flocking back to watch winning football, prominent members of the business community backing the club as they join the local board, signs of the ongoing investment everywhere you look, right down to including a refurbished Boots & Laces, promotion capable squad exciting the fan base, and a spirit of cooperation with the council bringing major projects ever closer. Can I have some of what he's drinking? TUST has been absolutely consistent in its aims ever since I first joined up back in 2006. To safeguard the long-term future of professional football in Torquay and to put the football club at the heart of the community. Do those aims coincide with Mr Osborne's? TUST was very keen to meet Mr Osborne as soon as he took over. I believe that he did promise he would meet TUST board members. Nice to see that promise looks like being fulfilled before the other promises - a fans' forum, a local board, a 5-year plan. Only took seventeen months. Why now? Despite AJ's fantasy world above, our football club is on its knees - having endured the worst season in its history and relegation to National League South. A large number of fans - and I do envy them this - have no interest in ownership, governance and the medium or long-term prospects of the club. The only thing they worry about is how things are going on the pitch. If we do get anywhere near AJ's fairy-tale scenario above, you can bet that the old divide and rule tactic will be back with a vengeance. "Look how great we are doing, how can anyone be worried about the future?" "Uncle Clarke is great, give him the freehold". "These troublemakers saying don't give him the freehold are the ones jeopardising the club". You can see it coming and AJ will be the chief cheerleader. But as of today, those fans who only look at results are as angry as hell. No support for Osborne there. So it is useful to use the calmer voice of TUST as a human shield. "Look - I am talking to TUST, what more do you want?" TUST will stick to its guns. Where that aligns with Mr Osborne's interests - such as using the grant money to attract custom to Boots - then the two parties will be singing from the same hymn sheet. On the big issue though, TUST will be fighting for the best interests of Torquay United FC. Clarke Osborne will be fighting for the best interests of Clarke Osborne. He will be trying his hardest to line up as many Alpine Joes behind him as he can. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2018 23:34:59 GMT
Indeed, but it's all commonsense that he's 'spouting', unlike the stuff from the self-appointed fans' voice, that the power seekers profess to be. Who might these "power seekers" and "self-appointed fans' voices" be? Ranting about militants is common sense is it? |
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Post by stewart on May 3, 2018 1:57:35 GMT
Jon's last two posts have responded to Alpine Joe's comments far better than I could have done, particularly when he says "Clarke Osborne will be fighting for the best interests of Clarke Osborne. He will be trying his hardest to line up as many Alpine Joes behind him as he can." It would appear that Alpine Joe just cannot help himself in his delusional state, as he said, on a different thread: However, I get no pleasure from seeing you distressed, Stewart (unlike Simonb who is probably a snowflake youngster for whom some exposure to an alternative viewpoint is probably doing him some good, if he did but know it ) and so will make a gesture of goodwill to you. Until the start of the new season (several months away, so no easy task for me) I will acquire and therefore post, only the approved standard views on Clarke Osborne and his ownership of the club, that fit with preferred TFF thinking on the subject. Once the new season kicks off, I will be free to revert to previously held opinions should I so wish to do.
This will give you, what I hope will be some much appreciated respite and a more enjoyable Summer. Of course on subjects such as Gary Owers, new players etc etc, I shall continue to exercise freedom of thought and of expression. But as for that treacherous Osborne, I'm as opposed to him as anyone.....at least until the big kick off to season 2018/19
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simonb
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Post by simonb on May 3, 2018 10:26:31 GMT
The main reality is that Osborne has totally failed to deliver a number of stadium projects and rarely delivers on his weasel word promises. It is not unreasonable to consider TUFC would be better run by a Trust than a charlatan!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 11:06:48 GMT
 Until we get some new signings announced, pre-season opponents to discuss, notification of who Luke Young's new club will be etc, we could have been facing a lean few weeks as far as exciting new topics was concerned. The big May 10th meeting stands out as a beacon on the horizon, and it's possible implications for the future of TUST (our thread title) is something we might enjoy speculating on. So far it's been worth it, if only for conjuring up an amusing vision of those three TUST board members acting as human shields for Clarke Osborne. While Jon doesn't dwell on what he thinks might result from the May 10th meeting, he does, as always, raise some other interesting points and questions. Joking aside about human shields, I do detect a calmer and less stridently militant approach from TUST under it's new leader, and this can only be good for us all. Jon We'll all have our separate opinions, but when I think back to the early days of TUST, the message I was getting was that they'd be going all out to buy up shares, to increase their shareholding whenever they could in order to achieve the clear aim of Community Ownership. It appeared to be an obsessional intention of a great number of our favourite Militants, and of course, an ownership model with an unmistakable Socialist ethos, saw the London Left pile in, as they were attracted to Trusts like bees to a honey pot. And less than 12 months ago, we had the previous TUST leader writing to the newspapers happily emphasising the fundamental difference in what TUST 'best interests of the club' would look like, as he refers to the Philip's Board: 'they genuinely did not understand that community ownership would result in a completely different business model to the one they had inherited'.And of course it IS a completely different business and ownership model, and one that naturally appeals strongly to those on the left wing militant strand of the political spectrum. No compromise, let's get in and impose hard line Socialism ! But what is the public face of kinder, gentler, moderate TUST today ? (and I'd encourage everyone to take a look at TUST's updated website)  These days 'TUST is not concerned whether this means ownership of the club in a private capacity or through a community ownership model'.Music to a Moderate's ears, but that's the sound of gnashing of Militant teeth you can hear in the background. Did we really get the impression that TUST was so ambivalent as to the ownership model when it set out it's 'objective' back in 2006 ? Was the objective simply 'long term sustainability' as it is now, or an overwhelming desire to get ownership and implement their 'completely different business model' ?And another pleasing aspect demonstrated above; no more of that disingenuous ' Fans representatives' claptrap. Instead, what seems to be a clear acknowledgement that they represent the views of their 'members', and are a voice for their 'members'.... but for no one else.
The calmer more considerate 'Human Shield' TUST of today, is one Clarke Osborne is much more likely to be able to do business with. And you just have to remind yourselves of TUST's own stated position to see that there is plenty of scope for going forward together on the Osborne Arena project. The positions really aren't too far apart. 'TUST explained that it was not against such a sale as a principle, provided there was a clear business case for the site’s disposal at that particular point in time; it is demonstrably in the long term interests of the club; and there are sufficient controls in place to ensure it remains in use as a stadium for senior level football, at least until there is an appropriate replacement stadium'.Again, much to the Militants dismay, but the Council, TUST, and the club should be able to find common ground. And now, with the big May 10th meeting looming, let's think back to TUST's meeting with GI representative Chris Rich. As TUST reported: 'Chris Rich insisted that GI have the long term interest of the club at heart and feels there is great deal of misinformation circulating about the company'.What better starting point than two organisations (GI and TUST) who both have the long term interest of the club at heart ? Further scope surely, for considering new moderate TUST as worthy of a position on the local board ? So I'll round off by further encouraging everyone to take a look at new moderate TUST's revamped website. Some helpful information, and a few things to bring a smile to the face. I'm looking forward to the 'Meet The Team' section being expanded. I crossed swords with a rather potty mouthed Ali on a different Forum a number of months back, but she seems a good sort nonetheless. Agreeing to marry a guy with 4 kids is certainly proof you must really love him . Given the absolute dogs abuse that they've received across the Forums for a long while, the decision to highlight Ali's 'property developer' background is a little surprising. 
link - New Moderate TUST
p.s I've amended my May 1st post above. Making changes particularly in the last paragraph, to remove comments that, at a push, could have been construed as being favourable to Clarke Osborne. Can't be too careful with Stewart scrutinising every word
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