chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 20, 2008 19:59:09 GMT
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one Alpine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2008 20:16:39 GMT
chelstongull chelston that's far too restrained . I do my best to wind you up & instead of a firey verbal blast reminiscent of Martin Keown you come up with a sensible reply like that . I didn't think the incidents at Old Trafford that day were all black or all white. There was definitely fault on both sides..provocation & over the top reaction to it. Good luck with the Junior football by the way, I admire you for giving up your time to help the youngsters enjoy the sport.
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Post by stuartB on Oct 20, 2008 21:42:18 GMT
Just a couple of trivial happenings that caught my eye during the weekends games. The sprinklers mysteriously started working during the first half of the Hamilton Academicals v St.Mirren game...not something I recall happening during a game before. ......and the badly behaved Jermaine Johnson who was none too pleased to be substituted as Wednesday won the Sheffield derby by a single goal. Such was Johnson's displeasure at being substituted that he got into a few arguments & scuffles with the coaching staff, then as he was making his way to the dressing room.. in his frustration he kicked a water bottle which landed in the crowd. The referee gave him a yellow card for this (his second yellow which then became a red) meaning he was sent off even though he'd been taken off (substituted) three minutes beforehand ;D I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often, maybe linesmen or fourth officials will witness 'foul & abusive language' from one of the subs & he will consequently be issued with a yellow card before he gets on the pitch. Likewise I suppose there is no reason why a player shouldn't receive a yellow card before kick off & so start the game already on a yellow, should he for instance kick a water bottle into the crowd during the pre match warm up. After all reds have been issued after the final whistle for arguments that continue in the tunnel remember the sprinklers coming on at Oxford a couple of seasons ago
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 20, 2008 21:49:14 GMT
Talking Of sprinklers, I think If we are going to water the pitch at half time, we need a better system. The guy spends 5Min's just dragging the thick hose into the middle Of the pitch. Then puts the end On and by the time they get the water on, Its time to pack It away again.
I watched them do It at a recent home game and just felt It was a pure waste Of time and effort.
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 21, 2008 2:54:15 GMT
I must say I thoroughly enjoyed my seasons refereeing and made a quick transition from Class 3 to Class 1 (as it was then) and onwards to the Western League. Even the "abuse" could be turned to "fun" if you had the right attitude, but was a pure misery for those that couldn't hack it......................and do you know what? I always had a theory that those that most struggled with it were those who had never played the game. Unfortunately those who "wasted" their early years playing the game have ruined their chances of making the very top before they have even started refereeing. Sad, but true and indicative of the very problems in the game and a revealing insight into the way off beam ideas of the Football Association. I reffed in an era when if a player called you a "thingy", and as long as it wasn't in general earshot of all around the ground; you told him to shut up and got on with it. I used to self question myself mercilessly over cards issued, and on the rare occasions of "multiple" cards being necessary; I'd be on the phone to my small circle of trusted and senior colleagues holding a post mortem that weekend. I always got the impression that 95% of the officials at all levels absolutely loved the game, whilst the small percentage of the ones who loved themselves far more were soon "sussed" by the others and teased mercilessly. Nowadays, looking at the obvious "youth" of many of the BSP AND Football League refs, it's obvious to me that they set out reffing way before they could have played any meaningful football in anything approaching a pressured environment and thus willingly interpret the current day mantra unquestioningly. The result is sadly there for all to see..................whistle, whistle, whistle and card, card, card! Very little attempt to show empathy and absolutely NO personality and very little man management skills. When you've had a football thrown at you by your ref in a halftime dressing room row, had to take the field for the second half covered in tea stains to the looks of the players who have all heard the screaming match emanating from your dressing room. Then you get to appreciate the frustration the players feel over a poor offside flag you gave as a linesman. Yet it happened to me at Exmouth one evening and "mysteriously" (the Western League had obviously heard about it) my weekend fixture was changed at short notice so that I lined for the guy again at Home Park within four days so that an exchange of sheepish grins and a hug later we were once again a team united battling it out against the hard bitten old pro's and gobby youngsters of Argyle reserves and their opponents. Today that would have ended up as a steward's enquiry and possibly the end of that guy's career in the middle. We were "forced" to sort it out as men, and it did us a lot of good!
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 21, 2008 7:15:40 GMT
chelstongull chelston that's far too restrained . I do my best to wind you up & instead of a firey verbal blast reminiscent of Martin Keown you come up with a sensible reply like that . I didn't think the incidents at Old Trafford that day were all black or all white. There was definitely fault on both sides..provocation & over the top reaction to it. Good luck with the Junior football by the way, I admire you for giving up your time to help the youngsters enjoy the sport. Cheers Alpine, my final point on the subject (as they say) is that the kids see what is going on and copy - Monkey See, Monkey Do....
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 21, 2008 15:22:37 GMT
A very good post Merse and one that does show the many changes In the way games are now refereed, none really for the better.
As you know my family from your Newton Spurs games I can't remember If we touched On George Best, my grandfather. About five years ago the Herald Express did a story about the lack Of respect shown to ref's these days.
The main feature Of the story was centered around George Best, before I go on, I believe he died before I was born,so sadly never got to meet him.
George Best was very well know In Newton Abbot as he had a fish stall In the Newton market, Merse you will remember there were about four Of five kiosk's between the Drum Clock and the main market building, he traded from one Of those.
The Heralds story, told how he would shut up early On a Saturday to go and ref local football games. He use to still be wearing his white shirt and bow tie while he did the games.The one point they really made was the great respect the players had for him and he was feared by many.
The result was that no player ever crossed George Best when he was the ref Of the game they were playing In. While we could expect that todays players should ever have to play In a game and have to fear the ref, It really should not be a problem for them to Be able to show some respect.
All local refs do It for the love Of the game and without them, games could not go ahead, Or you end up with two teams trying to agree who might ref, so as to get the game played.
I remember one such game at Decoy about three years ago,when there was No ref for the game, a phone call confirmed that the league wanted the game to be played. Ants team were the away team and the home manager claimed that as he had done It before he would be the best to do It.
What a bloody cheat he was, he gave a penalty that never was, his player cracked the ball against the crossbar, nobody else, not even the keeper touched the ball. The player put the rebound Into the net, but could not be a goal as no one else had touched It.
Their manager the ref gave the goal and all hell broke out afterwords, this really shows why, even If they are not that good, having a proper ref, Is really a must.
You question the age Of many refs In the BSP and ask If they had ever played the game etc, do you not think, the way they ref Is not really down too them.Surly It Is now all directives that they have to follow and they are always aware that there will be some accessor marking their performance.
As I believe that Is the case today, It Is In my view the main reason the common sense approach that would have been used when you did It, has disappeared, never to return again..
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 21, 2008 16:50:26 GMT
George Best was very well know In Newton Abbot as he had a fish stall In the Newton market, Merse you will remember there were about four Of five kiosk's between the Drum Clock and the main market building, he traded from one Of those. The Heralds story, told how he would shut up early On a Saturday to go and ref local football games. He use to still be wearing his white shirt and bow tie while he did the games.The one point they really made was the great respect the players had for him and he was feared by many. The result was that no player ever crossed George Best when he was the ref Of the game they were playing In. While we could expect that todays players should ever have to play In a game and have to fear the ref, It really should not be a problem for them to Be able to show some respect. You question the age Of many refs In the BSP and ask If they had ever played the game etc, do you not think, the way they ref Is not really down too them.Surly It Is now all directives that they have to follow and they are always aware that there will be some accessor marking their performance. As I believe that Is the case today, It Is In my view the main reason the common sense approach that would have been used when you did It, has disappeared, never to return again.. When old George reffed there was a general respect for authority in society and yes, even as late as the fifties saw some"Old School Guys" would still ref in a jacket! I well remember a couple of school masters reffing rugby games wearing cravats and one in particular (Bunny Webber) wouldn't be seen dead without his and when it was cold he would put a cricket sweater over his shirt too! I confess to pushing refs to the limit when I played, but obscurely I believe that in itself made me a better ref once I took up the whistle. The more "edge" there was to a game the better I reffed and to me there was nothing worse than an "easy-osey" game where there was no passion. I'll confess now that often in these sort of games I would let something go just to get the hackles up and give us all a bit of entertainment. I chatted to the great Clive Thomas once whilst at Plainmoor prior to an evening game when he passed an hour in my office prior to match time, and he too admitted to doing the same. The best story I have of CT is the game at Plainmoor when he started the second half with just one linesman..................anyone recall that? That was the guy at his mischievous best, and I'll tell you the story behind events: There was a regular linesman on the Westcountry circuit, a lovely fellow called Alan Montacute from Yeovil. Now Thomas had a fetish about his linos having crisp looking brilliant white sock tops and to be fair to him always brought a couple of brand new pairs in his kit bag for his assistants should their socks fail the "CT Test". Montacute was well known for his mankey socks with yellowing tops and stubbornly refused the offer of a new pair. As the teams took to the field for the second half, CT turned to Montacute and asked him to get this "spare stop watch" from his kit bag as his had stopped. With his assistant busily engaged back in the dressing room rummaging for the non existent time piece, Thomas started the second half without him and then he appeared flustered on the touchline; much to the mirth of the Plainmoor crowd.................. CT said that the assessor asked him how he had "not noticed" his lino was missing to which he replied that the Plainmoor lights were so poor he relied on his linos having bright white tops to their socks to pick them out and that as Montacute had such yellowy ones he assumed he had merely failed to pick him out against the background! For all his idiosyncrasies, give me Clive Thomas over "charisma removal" types like Michael Riley and Andy D'Urso any day!
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Post by stuartB on Oct 21, 2008 19:59:16 GMT
Merse, I have to disagree. Clive Thomas was a jumped up little toss pot.
He thought that we went to watch him and not the football. he always came to Plainmoor brandishing yellows at every opportunity. Ask the Brazilians what they think! that day and moment were all about Thomas and not the game.
when i refereed basketball for many years i believed that you were there to steward the game and not a dictator.
now, if you want to talk about great referees, I give you David Elleray. What a great ref and controlled the game without drawing major attention to himself. i remember losing 3-2 at Excretia in a full-blooded local derby but he did not book a single person. even though we lost I could not fault the ref for anything
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