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Post by sundayref on Jul 2, 2010 22:00:10 GMT
I've just watched the enthralling World Cup quarter final between Uruguay and Ghana. However the final minute of extra time proved that cheats can prosper. For those who havent seen it a Ghana player headed the ball towards the Uruguay goal from close range and it was going in. The score was 1-1 so a goal then would have won the game and moved Ghana into the semi final. However Suarez from Uruguay deliberately handled the ball on the line to stop it going in. The ref stopped play, gave the penalty and sent him off which is all well and good except that the penalty was missed and Ghana then lost the penalty shoot out. A camera in the players tunnel showed Suarez's reaction of jubilation. His actions had contributed to his team going through even at the expense of him missing the next game due to suspension - I hope FIFA give him a two match ban so that should they beat Holland and reach the final then he wont take part. I know we still moan about Diego's hand of god in 1986 but in my opinion this was worse.
Should FIFA change the rules as they have in Rugby that if in the opinion of the referee a goal would have been scored (a try in Rugby) then this is awarded rather than a penalty or free kick? What are your thoughts folks?
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petef
Match Room Manager 
Posts: 4,563
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Post by petef on Jul 2, 2010 22:39:51 GMT
I watched it to and was disapointed that Ghana didnt get what they deseved, thaey have been superb and put our inept greedy lot to shame.
Yep if the ball was going in and the player deliberately stopped it with his hand a goal shoud be awarded in my opinion.
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merse
TFF member
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Post by merse on Jul 2, 2010 22:41:18 GMT
Should FIFA change the rules as they have in Rugby that if in the opinion of the referee a goal would have been scored (a try in Rugby) then this is awarded rather than a penalty or free kick? What are your thoughts folks?  Not much chance of that is there, they don't even award a goal when the ball does go in the bloody goal!  I've always thought that would be one of the most sensible law changes there could ever be, but I would still award the red card although if that law change came about there would be little point in handling would there so it would probably do everyone a favour. Anyway, I laughed my tits off as the arrogance of the Ghanaians was growing by the minute. What with their partying in the Casino until one o'clock this morning and that ruddy Marcelle (I'm French, oh no I'm not I'm Ghanaian) Desailly in the TV studio and those idiots they interviewed banging on about fire pots and all that mumbo jumbo, it was doing no service to the long term interests of African football in it's quest for equality was it. Africa has the passion, it has the raw talent; but it has yet to acquire the professionalism to win a World Cup. |
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Post by stefano on Jul 2, 2010 23:27:18 GMT
Should FIFA change the rules as they have in Rugby that if in the opinion of the referee a goal would have been scored (a try in Rugby) then this is awarded rather than a penalty or free kick? What are your thoughts folks? No ... haven't we had enough problems in the last week with this 'in the opinion of the referee'?. No, no, and no again! The penalties for that offence are clear and proportionate ... a sending off and a penalty kick awarded. Please don't try to change the game any more so that is is no longer recognisable to me! Just a plea from an old guy  |
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 3, 2010 3:46:23 GMT
Couldn't agree with Stefano's post more.
I was gutted for Ghana, absolutely gutted. They could and should have won this game after 120 minutes, had ample opportunities to, but they didn't.
Suarez was no doubt a hero on the team bus after the game, but everyone knows the rules (and the penalties) for breaking those rules before the game starts and everyone consents to those parameters when they pull on a shirt and run on to a pitch.
Football would be a very dry game indeed if players and officials always made the right decision. The game is richer and more compelling for its villains, controversies and dodgy decisions. Its injustices stick in the throat, mean the team that plays the best game does not always win, but that's life.
If anyone truly believes that 'cheats never prosper' they are setting themselves up for more disappointments in life than Ghana going out of the World Cup in the Quarter Finals!!
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Post by chrish on Jul 3, 2010 7:00:29 GMT
Anyway, I laughed my tits off as the arrogance of the Ghanaians was growing by the minute. What with their partying in the Casino until one o'clock this morning and that ruddy Marcelle (I'm French, oh no I'm not I'm Ghanaian) Desailly in the TV studio and those idiots they interviewed banging on about fire pots and all that mumbo jumbo, it was doing no service to the long term interests of African football in it's quest for equality was it. Africa has the passion, it has the raw talent; but it has yet to acquire the professionalism to win a World Cup. I watched the game at work last night and I found myself vowing never to listen to live commentary on ITV again. They've had this policy it seems during this world cup to pick a couple of a players and just laud everything they do during a game and then wait for Jim Beglin to talk absolute shite. The BBC are a bit better, providing someone has a word with Mark Lawrenson, who,'s getting rather big for his boots these days since not being in John Motson shadow. He just sounds like a bitchy old queen with his comments like "Apparently that's world class defending, Guy" with a theatrical tut to show his disgust. As for Marcel Desailly. I did some digging up to see why being Ghanian he actually played for France and it's a interesting story. He was born as Odenke Abbey. His mother married a diplomat from the French Consulate in Accra and then they moved to France when Marcel/Odenke was four years old. You could describe his reactions during Ghana games during this world cup as a geniune attempt to re-connect with his Ghanian roots but the cynical side in all of us thinks it's a bit shallow. It's a shame for Ghana. They're a very good side but they got a big lesson in professionalism by a very streetwise Uruguay outfit. Uruguay in their first world cup semi final since 1970. They lost 3-1 to Brazil. As for last night's Luis Suarez incident. The punishment doesn't fit the crime. It reminded me of our penalty at Morecambe last season where the keeper blatantly fouled Scott Rendell as he was goalside and about to shoot. The eventual shot hit the post, the keeper only got a yellow card and then saved Nicky Wroe's penalty. I disagree with Stefano and Lambeth on this. The current regulations governing incidents like last night still offer some reward for cheating. It was a blatant handball to deny a certain goal. The reward for Suarez and Uruguay was that instead of it being a goal there was a much better chance that the resulting penalty would be saved. I'd rather change the regulations to give an automatic goal and send off any outfield player who deliberately handballs in the six yard box. You'd still get some doing it, as it's a natural reaction but it's very wrong to reward the outfield player who's stopped a certain goal with an illegal act. With the game at 1-1 in the last seconds of extra time the rewards for Suarez handling the ball deliberately far outweighed the consequences. There's something wrong there I think. Some bloke was on Radio 5 Live last night where he said that Football was the only sport where cheats prosper. Last night's decision meant that Ghana were beaten well before the first penalty kick was taken. |
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Jul 3, 2010 9:00:41 GMT
You only had to watch the scenes after the game to know the law needs to be changed as the player who missed that penalty was so deeply upset and distraught and it’s going to take a long time before he ever gets over that miss and blaming himself for his team going out of the world cup.
That should never be allowed to happen and it only has because another player cheated and stopped a certain goal with his hands that would have seen the penalty taker celebrating the win instead and looking forward to the semi-finals.
This was not a case of ball to hand, the player made a clear save with his hand knowing full well if he had not done so then there would have been hardly anytime left for a restart let alone his team getting a goal back. He was happy to take the sending off knowing it gave his team a slim chance of winning the game and progressing to the semi-finals.
I’m sure he is seen as a hero by his team mates and his manager but what message does this send out to young up and coming footballers, what does it say about football itself and what does it say about the fans who are happy to allow a situation continue where there are such high rewards for cheating as that is what the player did when he stopped the ball crossing the line with his hand.
As far as I’m concerned it makes football a bit of a joke, what’s the point of having a game played with rules and a clear understanding of how a game is won, if such a deliberate act prevents a team from winning the match that they should have.
In F1 a car might cross the winning line in first place but if the car is found to have been altered etc, then there is a good chance the driver will get disqualified and the driver who came in second place and has not cheated by altering his car rightly gets awarded first place.
I really can’t believe some people are happy to see a team progress to the next round in this way and claim “The game is richer and more compelling for its villains, controversies and dodgy decisions” its not meant to be a pantomime is it? Why not have games billed as Christmas specials and dress the players up in villain costumes? Now that really will add something more to the game, after all who cares if the right team won and who cares if those bad villains win at the end of the day doing what you would expect a villain to do.
If I want to watch such entertainment where the villains can come out on top I’ll wait for the pantomime season to start and get a front row seat, I don’t want to watch any game of sport where the team that won within the rules is the team that ends up in second place because the villains were allowed to get away with cheating.
I would hope Merse’s Anthony has it drilled into him that such actions as we saw last night are wrong and something no player should ever be doing, but we all know that once a player joins a club, winning is the only important thing and it seems it does not matter how the win is achieved as long as it is.
No one wants to see the game ruined in anyway, but if it wants to be classed as a sport, then sportsmanship has to be shown and the team that has won the game by achieving the criteria set out to win it should be the team that gets the points, lifts the cup, or progresses to the next round.
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Post by loyalgull on Jul 3, 2010 9:09:28 GMT
thats what infuriates me when people call maradonna a footballing genius,he was a cheat in more ways than one,he cheated us and is the last player to be thrown out of a world cup final for drug taking.But he is not alone,all forms of unfair sportsmanship is a blight on our game,i agree,it was a nailed on goal until suarez intervened,it should have been given and him still sent packing.But like i said before,there have now been at least 3 major incidents that have altered the outcome of games,i now holland win it,but have a sneaky feeling a couple of more unfair decisions will get in the way of that.
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 3, 2010 9:23:31 GMT
I really can’t believe some people are happy to see a team progress to the next round in this way I am not advocating cheating, Dave. Nor did I say I was "happy to see a team progress to the next round in this way". If some on this and other websites had their way, FIFA would be creating new laws and regulations every other game. Not content with the idea of installing goal-line technology, video replays, specially commissioned satellites from NASA; the latest controversial incident now apparently requires the referee to be given the power to award a goal even when the ball hasn’t crossed the line! I stick by my view the game is richer for villains and their indiscretions. It is more emotional, more compelling, more interesting for having them. A football game is not a pantomime, but it is a drama, a drama in which the performance and subplots will always revolve around more than a straightforward contest of athletic prowess and tactics. And that will remain the case no matter how many laws are changed or innovations brought in. |
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Post by mattpuma on Jul 3, 2010 10:02:12 GMT
Anyway, I laughed my tits off as the arrogance of the Ghanaians was growing by the minute. What with their partying in the Casino until one o'clock this morning and that ruddy Marcelle (I'm French, oh no I'm not I'm Ghanaian) Desailly in the TV studio and those idiots they interviewed banging on about fire pots and all that mumbo jumbo, it was doing no service to the long term interests of African football in it's quest for equality was it. Africa has the passion, it has the raw talent; but it has yet to acquire the professionalism to win a World Cup. I disagree with Stefano and Lambeth on this. The current regulations governing incidents like last night still offer some reward for cheating. It was a blatant handball to deny a certain goal. The reward for Suarez and Uruguay was that instead of it being a goal there was a much better chance that the resulting penalty would be saved. I'd rather change the regulations to give an automatic goal and send off any outfield player who deliberately handballs in the six yard box. You'd still get some doing it, as it's a natural reaction but it's very wrong to reward the outfield player who's stopped a certain goal with an illegal act. With the game at 1-1 in the last seconds of extra time the rewards for Suarez handling the ball deliberately far outweighed the consequences. There's something wrong there I think. Some bloke was on Radio 5 Live last night where he said that Football was the only sport where cheats prosper. Last night's decision meant that Ghana were beaten well before the first penalty kick was taken. Exactly, Suarez didnt arrive at the free kick, which everyone seems to have forgotten was dubiously awarded in the first place, thinking "i know, i will deliberately stop a Ghanaian effort with my hand". Of course not, it was a split second thing which if an England player had done it you would be praising him for his sacrifice for his team. Constantly throughout any one game players try to gain an advantage by going down easily, pulling or pushing the opposition or other means such as pretending to be injured. If you are saying no one from the Ghana team perpetrated any of these acts then you are blinkered by your desire for them to progress. Personally, i found it riveting entertainment! Even at amateur level players will commit fouls and try to con the referee so if you dont expext it at a professional level where the stakes are so high then you would be very naive. I will be very disappointed if FIFA increase his ban as the rules have been applied accordingly already. |
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Post by loyalgull on Jul 3, 2010 10:12:14 GMT
the problem is people are now accepting of the fact that cheating is part and parcel of the game,because it is rife it becomes the norm,the diving and feigning injury etc is more embarassing than watching wwf,i still love my footy but this aspect is now out of control,and brandishing an imaginary card to the ref to take action against fellow players needs to be stamped out,they should be booked for that as well,its cringeworthy to watch
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Jul 3, 2010 15:03:20 GMT
Just listening to the 'experts' on ITV (Shearer, Hanson et all) who on the handball incident said "Anyone in the same position would have done the same, instinct". What chance Dave, when the ex-pro's don't have the balls to condemn this sort of cheating.
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 3, 2010 15:11:00 GMT
Just listening to the ' experts' on ITV (Shearer, Hanson et all) who on the handball incident said "Anyone in the same position would have done the same, instinct". What chance Dave, when the ex-pro's don't have the balls to condemn this sort of cheating. Well if that's what they both thought, then what are they supposed to say? Surely it took more 'balls' to say what they actually thought rather than coming out with some sanctimonious rubbish that they didn't really believe. |
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chelstongull
TFF member
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Post by chelstongull on Jul 3, 2010 15:27:44 GMT
If your happy that cheating is okay, I'm saying no more on the matter  |
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 3, 2010 15:40:45 GMT
If your happy that cheating is okay, I'm saying no more on the matter It's not about it being 'okay', 'correct' or anything else....it's just that one has to accept that these sort of things happen on a football pitch. They always have and they always will. You'll never stop players doing it, you'll never be able to anticipate or end every injustice that occurs on a football pitch (no matter how much you tinker with the rules or fiddle about introducing technology), and to be quite frank, this ridiculous howling and calls for significant changes to the game after every injustice is beginning to look really silly. |
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