Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 22, 2010 23:25:51 GMT
I would not like to say what our chances are of winning the world cup, but having Rooney fit and in the form he has been this season for Manchester United, we stand a good chance of reaching the latter stages.
What is great is just being in it as when we are in these major competitions you end up getting rather patriotic. Cars everywhere having England flags flying and houses and buildings draped in England flags. Pubs full of fans watching on big screens and the path outside the pubs at half time packed with all the smokers taking a f*g break.
There can be downsides as well, I remember foreign students getting beat up in Torbay when France won it one year and the Germany Sausage shop having bricks thrown through the windows (is it still in Torbay now?) seems there will always be bad losers and throw in some heavy drinking and make sure your not on the streets but tucked up safely in bed.
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 23, 2010 4:02:16 GMT
About 25 years ago Edson Arantes do Nascimento aka Pele said that an African nation would win the World Cup by the turn of the century. He was wrong, but there is a noticeable improvement in tactical awareness and sophistication now not just amongst the African nations but also other developing football countries including the Arab States, the Far East, the USA, and even Australia Did anybody watch enough of the recent Africa Cup of Nations or know enough about football on that Continent to guage which of the six contestants this year (South Africa, Nigeria, Algeria, Ghana, Cameroon, and Ivory Coast) could be in with a shout of seriously contesting the latter stages? You could see why Pele (ever the willing ambassador) said that, but what he should have said was "would have the skill and technique levels to win a World Cup".Anyone watching some of the best of that continent would have to concede that allied to a frightening physical advantage, the leading African nations do indeed have enough players of World Class skill and ability, but do they have the discipline and mental toughness to hone themselves into tournament winners? Not yet, and not in my opinion for some time yet will they present that achievement for their nations(s) For every naturally gifted ball player who will do amazing things with a football there is another who will do crazy things too. For every potential match winner who can overwhelm oponents with raw pace and genius like touch there is one who will throw it all away with indisciplined tackling, brutal over commitment and totally forgetting hard worked and carefully prepared strategy. Then there is the appallingly poor level of the administrative side of the African game, a standard of buffoonery that merely mirrors the shameful self governence of many of those nations...................I know of one (English) former coach of D.R. Congo who carefully arranged his first training weekend with the national squad in Belgium ~ chosen because it minimalised travelling for the majority of the European based squad ~ only to find out that when they assembeld on the training ground for the first of two days work, that no-one in the Congolese F.A. had taken the responsibility of procuring any kit or training equipment - not even a single football - whatsoever and valuable time and effort had to be expended on procuring that very basic commodity from the host club's equipment just so that a very basic session could be put on. To actually win a World Cup takes immense mental toughness and discipline in getting a squad not only to the Finals but then to get it to "peak" at the end of that final tournament in a way that the Germans, Italians and Brazilians so often have and hence that's whay they are the serial winners rather than the "one offs" like ourselves and France. Of the current largest ever African contingent to get to a Finals I would pick out Algeria as being the hardest to beat but lacking the absolute "edge" needed to go and do really well in the knock out stages. Ghana and Ivory Coast to show that they have that certain "edge" but to drop short of making a concerted long stay in the competition past the second knock out stage. Nigeria have always got the biggest resources and seemingly the biggest problems when it comes to off the field unity and focus whilst Cameroon are very similar but with the past track record of out shining their continental rivals. South Africa look just plain poor and way below their former standards we saw ten years ago, whilst we have to acknowledge the immense emotion and support that may carry them through the initial round of matches. So for me it is Cameroon to go the furthest, but I'd be gobsmaked if they were to reach the semi finals.
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Post by chrish on Mar 23, 2010 9:05:28 GMT
I think African Teams have always had skill and technique in adbundance, it's been the composure and tactical awareness that's let them down over the years. They seem to lack the ability or the awareness to close games down when they're in the bag. A lot of this seems to stem from the more defensive positions. Most African Teams have attacking flair and midfield power in almost envious abundance but it's the defenders that hold the key to the success of African Football. I'm not denying that players like Benjamin Massing, Taribo West, Andre Bikey and Rigobert Song don't or didn't have all the necessary physical attributes to become top class defenders, it's the mental attributes that has held them back over the years. Stephen Tataw, Captain of Cameroon in 1990, had those more "European" qualities about him but players of his type are few and far between. I watched Andre Bikey play for Burnley this year and he's big, strong and quick but he has no positional sense or composure.
I think Merse is right about the African FA's not really doing enough to help their own cause. Nigeria has this habit of qualifying for a International Tournament with a Nigerian coach (Shaibu Amodu, his 4th time in the job) and then replacing him with a foreign coach (Lars Lagerback). I guess this lack of continuity might be the reason why Nigeria never really live up to the expectations people have of them. I guess the feeling is that they need a tactically aware coach European coach in order to compete tactically during tournaments and then they don't have enough money to employ them after the tournament has handed. Most of the foreign coaches they've had have never stayed longer than two years (Philippe Troussier, Berti Vogts). The one who stayed for five years, Dutchman Clemens Westerhof, did have enough time to get them qualified for USA 1994 and create a legacy which they haven't really lived up to since.
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Post by stefano on Mar 23, 2010 14:26:18 GMT
About 25 years ago Edson Arantes do Nascimento aka Pele said that an African nation would win the World Cup by the turn of the century. He was wrong, but there is a noticeable improvement in tactical awareness and sophistication now not just amongst the African nations but also other developing football countries including the Arab States, the Far East, the USA, and even Australia Did anybody watch enough of the recent Africa Cup of Nations or know enough about football on that Continent to guage which of the six contestants this year (South Africa, Nigeria, Algeria, Ghana, Cameroon, and Ivory Coast) could be in with a shout of seriously contesting the latter stages? .....For every naturally gifted ball player who will do amazing things with a football there is another who will do crazy things too. For every potential match winner who can overwhelm oponents with raw pace and genius like touch there is one who will throw it all away with indisciplined tackling, brutal over commitment and totally forgetting hard worked and carefully prepared strategy. . I suppose it's what makes the African teams so exciting .... nothing worse than watching Germans taking penalties .... unless you are a German of course!
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Post by aussie on Apr 7, 2010 17:37:48 GMT
Any one see the report about the Boer the got executed by the blacks? The Boer`s are going to hit back at the blacks is what is being circulated and it`s all gunna kick off in time for this World Cup! Have you seen the Boer emblem? It`s just like the Nazi Emblem that Hitler used except it has one less leg on it, does that tell you anything? I hope I`m not correct but history would suggest that I am, the World Cup will be damaged because it is going to be held in an unstable country just like I said and got slagged off for ages ago by certain know it alls! Queue the know it alls to tell me I know nothing and wrong again!
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Post by longeatongull on Apr 7, 2010 17:59:54 GMT
Any one see the report about the Boer the got executed by the blacks? The Boer`s are going to hit back at the blacks is what is being circulated and it`s all gunna kick off in time for this World Cup! Have you seen the Boer emblem? It`s just like the Nazi Emblem that Hitler used except it has one less leg on it, does that tell you anything? I hope I`m not correct but history would suggest that I am, the World Cup will be damaged because it is going to be held in an unstable country just like I said and got slagged off for ages ago by certain know it alls! Queue the know it alls to tell me I know nothing and wrong again! Im not trying to be a know it all Aussie. I was shocked over the weekend when I heard Eugene Terrablanche (sorry if spelt wrong) had been killed. I have lots of family in SA and spoke to them during Easter --once again they are very concerned about the amount of attacks "black on white" that go unreported. It is a very sensitive issue and we dont hear the half of what is occuring. E.T was very extremist but had served his time and was trying to keep a lower profile however leaves quite a following behind. In relation to the World Cup I fear that it could be chaos but hope I am wrong.
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merse
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Post by merse on Apr 7, 2010 18:43:26 GMT
I have seen Eugene Terreblanche described as "not a racist but a white supremist" ~ well anyone who can make that sort of statement must be as one eyed as he was. Certainly he was a Neo Nazi, separatist; and downright dangerous character who in fact had only a minority following amongst the ethnic Europeans of South Africa. His "war" was as much against the "British" as the Africans, and he would have claimed he was not at war with the Africans at all, but that he merely wanted the different ethnic groups of the country to exist seperately (i.e. maintain and expand apartheid) As leader of the AWB with their Neo Nazi three legged swastika (almost like the Isle of Man symbol) and his penchant for making public addresses from the back of a horse, his mind and hence his politics dated back to the Boer Wars between the Afrikaaners and the British. His paramilitary army vowed to fight for the existence and survival of the "White Tribe" of South Africa, to him the onset of democracy was the slipperty slope to communism, black rule and the destruction of the nation he loved as he saw it. Established in the rural farmsteads of the north of the Republic and almost non existent in the main areas of settlement and the cities, his was a strangely non representative view of the majority of the "Whites", much like the laughable British National Party is in this country. That he died such a grizzley death being hacked to death in his bed in retribution over non payment of just £29 in unpaid wages to two employees shows just how underpaid and undervalued the black African figured in his mindset. I wouldn't expect any undue civil unrest over this murder as indeed in the cities (as I stated) his importance and influence was minimal.
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Post by aussie on Apr 10, 2010 10:25:53 GMT
The funeral was yesterday and thousands turned up to salute Nazi style as the procession went by, still recon it`s not going to kick off?
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Post by stefano on May 13, 2010 11:10:44 GMT
Well only 29 days to go so what will be the headlines and the things we will remember, fondly or not, in years to come? Political unrest involving the Boers, terrorism, violent crime, hooliganism, betting and match fixing scandals, players failing drug tests, everybody arriving by road as a volcano has closed all the airports? Hopefully of course none of these, although all are a possibility for the fifth tournament to be held in the Southern Hemisphere but the first on the Continent of Africa. Our wish is for a festival of football that will long be remembered for flamboyant skill, colourful and loud supporters, and a multi-cultural fun party with the only controversial incidents being offside and goal line decisions (followed by another debate on the use of technology!)
I am relieved that this year for the first time in living memory the media have not over hyped the chances of England winning the World Cup. Every other tournament the media headlines in England have been such that if they were to be believed we would only need to turn up to win. Always to end of course in another penalty shoot out and rapid auf wiedersehen. I suppose this year the media have had other things to think about with a general election followed by a squatter in Number 10 and an unholy alliance plotting outside to oust him. Give me the football headlines any day!
My own following of the fortunes of England has really run parallel to my support for Torquay United over the years.
My support for the Gulls began in 1963 at the age of 11 and in the first six seasons we finished 6th,10th,3rd (promoted),7th,4th,and 6th. Since when we went into decline with the odd sparkle of promotion but followed quickly by relegation.
England very similar in that the first tournament I remember was in 1966 when we won it for the first, only, and maybe last time. Since then abject failure with like Torquay United the odd sparkle reaching the semi-finals of the World Cup in 1990 and the Euro Championship in 1996 (both games of course losing to Germany on those irritating penalty shoot outs where the Germans are just like robots!)
Although I have clear memories of watching my first televised FA Cup Final Wolves v Blackburn Rovers in 1960 I cannot really remember the 1962 World Cup tournament. I know from the record books that it was played in Chile and that England lost 3-1 to Brazil in the quarter-final, but I have no recollection of ever seeing any of the games on the television. At that time mind Chile might as well have been on a different planet. The games were probably played in the middle of the night UK time and there were no satellites to beam images direct into our living rooms.
So 1966 my first World Cup memory, and like with Torquay United I started on a high with no inkling that that particular summit may never be reached again.
1966. Seems like a different World, and I suppose in many ways it was. England captain Bobby Moore lived in a semi detached house and travelled to games on public transport, hardly any football on the television, games that were shown were in black and white, there was an emerging youth culture, Lambrettas and Vespas were everywhere, Carnaby Street, Woodstock, the Isle of White, Jimi Hendrix, Mods v Rockers Brighton Bank Holiday bust ups, England had coal mines and industry, apprenticeships existed for kids leaving school, and it was a full three years before the first moon landing (or before the Americans staged the first moon landing in a Hollywood studio depending on your take on it!).
So a great start for my support of my club Torquay United and my country England, but the parallel stories do not end there.
All Torquay United fans know the story of Bryn the police dog who saved us in 1987 from relegation to the Conference by savaging our full back Jim McNicholl resulting in additional time being added during which we equalised and sent Lincoln plummeting through the trap door.
But England have their doggie stories as well. In 1962 a four legged intruder invaded the pitch during the quarter-final tie between England and Brazil. Jimmy Greaves showed an unusual turn of speed and captured the errant canine who immediately urinated on him. Brazil legend Garrincha was so amused that after the game he adopted the dog and named it Bi; 1966 and the World Cup was stolen whilst on display only to be found a few days later by a dog called Pickles in a South London park (strange story and I have always had suspicions about those connected with Pickles ... but who knows? ... the truth is often stranger than fiction!); 1970 and the England squad took a fearsome looking bulldog (yes even more fearsome than Guy Branston!) to Mexico as their lucky mascot. It didn't bring much luck, Bobby Moore was arrested for theft before the tournament, England players were kept awake every night by fans outside of their hotel, followed by allegedly being cunningly poisoned by enthusiastic waiters before our semi-final against Germany. Result a stand in goalkeeper, some star players flagging in the second half, and a two goal lead disappearing into a 3-2 defeat.
Despite the coincidences between the fortunes of Torquay United and the England team and the connection of both with our four legged friends of the canine variety, I think the most remarkable (and tenuous!) connection is that England probably would not have won the 1966 World Cup without the involvement of Torquay United!
On the 1 May 1957 at Selhurst Park with seconds remaining Crystal Palace full back Jack Edwards (later to become coach at Plainmoor) kicked a Torquay United shot off the line to keep the score at 1-1 and secure a draw. That result left Torquay finishing second on goal average in the Third Division (South) to Ipswich Town under manager Alf Ramsey (who were promoted to the Second Dvision). Five years later Alf Ramsey had led Ipswich Town to the Football League title. After leading Ipswich from the Third Division (South) to the pinnacle as English champions there was only really one choice to become England manager. There is no doubt that Alf Ramsey was a key figure in guiding England to success in 1966, so what if Jack Edwards had not kicked that ball off the line back in May 1957 and it was Torquay United who got promoted?
By 1966 Alf may still have been languishing in the Third Division (South) with Ipswich Town, if he had not been sacked due to lack of success .... and the England manager? Eric Webber and a far different history for Torquay United? ;D
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merse
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Post by merse on May 13, 2010 13:31:13 GMT
I cannot really remember the 1962 World Cup tournament. I know from the record books that it was played in Chile and that England lost 3-1 to Brazil in the quarter-final, but I have no recollection of ever seeing any of the games on the television. At that time mind Chile might as well have been on a different planet. The games were probably played in the middle of the night UK time and there were no satellites to beam images direct into our living rooms. Even though I am younger than you I can recall watching that 1962 World Cup at home as we had just become the proud owners of a spanking new14" black & white telly that seemed to take ages to warm up before the picture appeared amongst a bevvy of coughing and wheezing. No it wasn't my sixty John Players a day dad, but the tubes and valves warming up before firing into life in the cabinet behind the screen. Now whether it was on BBC as I suspect, or ITV; I could not tell you but the games were shown at tea time and I guess if they were afternoon kick offs in the chilly Chilean winter they would have equated to roughly evening time in England and were thus broadcast the next day(?) We were one of the few people to be able to recieve ITV in Newton Abbot at the time as my dad was into "Radio Hamming" with his mate Laurie and between them they built each other a ruddy great tall tubular (twelve feet) mast and home made aeriel that looked like it was made of coat hanger wire and balsa wood to get the very weak signal from far away Stockland Hill as North Hessary Tor was exclusively for the Beeb....................it was a skill they had learned during the Italian campaign in the war and took my dad back to Italy to work on rebuilding radio stations immediately after the ending of hostilities. Anyway, the neighbours thought he was bonkers and I don't know whether the old Tory voting git next door thought he was a Marxist spying for the Russians (no he wasn't called Mr Shaw) but the next thing that happened was that he was told to take it down by the council planners and he then constructed a telescopic one he could wind up when he wanted to use it and wind down when he didn't Anyway, I digress: I do have vague recollections of faded images of games played in seemingly all open stadiums with running tracks around them and after all this time the image that remains uppermost are of the police/army all round the pitches in their nazi looking steel helmets! They were probably on the look out for Dad and his chum illicitly filming from up in the mountains!
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Post by stefano on May 25, 2010 19:04:52 GMT
Well it's all looking as tense in Korea as it has probably been since the end of the 1950-1953 Korean War, and apart from the damage to world stability and a further blow to the economic markets, we have the small matter of the rapidly approaching World Cup, with for the first time both North Korea and South Korea competing together in a finals tournament. As luck would have it, or actually probably by design, they could not meet each other until the semi-finals, which seems an unlikely scenario. Will they actually pull out if the situation develops into war, which at the moment seems highly likely? Also what about the USA and Japan, both also in the finals and both closely aligned with South Korea? I expect the Irish are watching the situation carefully to see if a last minute vacancy occurs so that they can raise the Thierry Henry handball again, they've probably got their bags packed just in case!
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Post by stefano on May 27, 2010 6:09:17 GMT
Aussie still on walkabout then? Probably worried the Socceroos will scrape through Group D in second place and then get a dicking from England in the second round! That's always assuming England win Group C of course .... we've had our comeuppance more than once when going into these competitions in a so called easy group. No such thing of course, but I bet a draw in the first game will see cries of 'Sort it out Capello' from the stands! Hope those Sheffield supporters aren't there every game with their xenophobic tuneless band! It's only a game Aussie. Come back and play and we'll all promise to be kind if we do meet in the second round!!
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Post by chrish on May 27, 2010 10:22:55 GMT
Aussie still on walkabout then? Probably worried the Socceroos will scrape through Group D in second place and then get a dicking from England in the second round! That's always assuming England win Group C of course .... we've had our comeuppance more than once when going into these competitions in a so called easy group. No such thing of course, but I bet a draw in the first game will see cries of 'Sort it out Capello' from the stands! Hope those Sheffield supporters aren't there every game with their xenophobic tuneless band! It's only a game Aussie. Come back and play and we'll all promise to be kind if we do meet in the second round!! Why, what's happened to him?
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Post by aussie on May 28, 2010 13:38:18 GMT
Aussie still on walkabout then? Probably worried the Socceroos will scrape through Group D in second place and then get a dicking from England in the second round! That's always assuming England win Group C of course .... we've had our comeuppance more than once when going into these competitions in a so called easy group. No such thing of course, but I bet a draw in the first game will see cries of 'Sort it out Capello' from the stands! Hope those Sheffield supporters aren't there every game with their xenophobic tuneless band! It's only a game Aussie. Come back and play and we'll all promise to be kind if we do meet in the second round!! Why, what's happened to him? Software issues that`s what! Funny lot you Britts, we beat you in a friendly and " oh doesn`t count it`s only a friendly " but when you beat Mexico then it`s a good result and it helps to be winning games! If Australia meet England in the World Cup you had better play to your best ability because we will want to win that game more than the World Cup Final itself and you know Aussies will rise to the occasion against the old enemy!
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on May 30, 2010 7:53:31 GMT
I see that it is the final friendly at lunch time today prior to the world cup. It looks like that a number of the squad on the fringe are playing as Capello looks to make his final cut on Tuesday. Obviously a match where the individual performances will count more than the actual result!
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