rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Jun 6, 2010 16:23:02 GMT
I suppose it is very much in the Anglo Saxon culture to assign nicknames to people in all walks of life, whether that will be to friends, celebrities, cities, areas or regions of England, the celtic stock or other countries. Many of these nicknames are very much acceptable and I wouldn't have a problem with being referred to as a pom or limey for example. But, as always, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed on a public forum.  Back to topic, does no one else think that both Lampard and Gerrard will start in central midfield next Saturday?  |
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Rags
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Post by Rags on Jun 6, 2010 20:06:02 GMT
Back to topic, does no one else think that both Lampard and Gerrard will start in central midfield next Saturday? I would expect Gerrard to start on the left hand side of midfield. One of his responsibilities is to attract the marking from the right-sided defensive midfielder/full back, then gradually drift into the centre. This creates a large space for ACole to overlap into. Of course, this tactic has received quite a lot of media coverage recently so I would expect USA to expect this and be able to devise a strategy to combat it. But if they can't we will be very strong on the left. I'd be inclined to play ACole further forward, more as a left midfielder alongside Lampard and a holder (possibly Carrick?), then Lennon further forward roughly level with Gerrard, JCole as a classic number 10 with Rooney although both of them much deeper than a traditional attacking pair: James/Green Johnson - Terry - King Lampard - Carrick - ACole Lennon - Gerrard JCole Rooney This will give USA no real strikers to deal with and should leave their back four looking at other like Laurel & Hardy. Gerrard, JCole and Rooney can all sit deeper to help overpower the Americans midfield and move forward quickly into attack when we have the ball; like Man Utd with Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney when they played an elaborate version of a 4-6-0 formation... When we are defending, ACole can retreat to a classic left full-back position, Carrick sits in front, Gerrard moves into a central midfield position alongside Lampard - sort of a 4-1(Carrick)-3-2(Rooney and either Lennon or JCole depending on which side the Americans are attacking). |
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Rags
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Post by Rags on Jun 6, 2010 20:08:28 GMT
Perhaps this makes more sense:
James/Green
Johnson - Terry - King
.............Lampard - Carrick - ACole
Lennon.............................Gerrard
............JCole
.........................Rooney
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Jun 6, 2010 21:41:36 GMT
 It's not showing intolerance to other nationalities when I deride those who adopt a superiority complex and look down on the class of people who worked very hard to establish this country Brian. Expressing annoyance at "twits" who cannot accept a sport for what it is without annoying others by tunelessly blowing musical instruments, moronically ruining everyone else's day or dressing up like some total pratt is not adopting an agressive stance towards other nations is it! Would you sit at Lords and abuse the Pakistanis as "cheating Pakis"? NO? |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on Jun 7, 2010 2:46:57 GMT
Can't wait for it to start. I wonder if Fab will opt for a Spurs defensive pairing. They have had an excellent season and obviously play well as a unit. Mind you i'm not sure if this desire has more to do with my loathing of Terry! Can we cut out the PC luvvie crap. The Germans are Krauts, the Argentinians (Argies), the USA (Yanks), NZ (Kiwis), England (Limeys, Poms whatever), Torquay (Gulls), Scum (Greeks), GAWS (Cornish Inbred), Brighton (Poofs), Arsenal (Gooners), Liverpool (Thieving Scouse Drug dealers), Scots (Wannabe English), Welsh (Ungrateful)........and the list goes on. I know some on here are sensitive (bless) but grow a backbone and stop being so precious. Next they will ban the flag of St. George!...........erm |
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Post by aussie on Jun 7, 2010 6:02:03 GMT
I bet you love Maradona `eh Merse, never called him anything did you? B0llocks, get off your high horse before someone pushes you off!
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 7, 2010 8:16:49 GMT
I bet you love Maradona `eh Merse, never called him anything did you? B0llocks, get off your high horse before someone pushes you off! No, I detest him as an individual, a cheat and a drug abuser. His nationality has nothing to do with it and I don't resort to using abusive terms for that nationality. The point I'm making and you miss is that international tournaments are nearly always a celebration of different cultures and hugely enjoyable and that atmosphere is not best served when idiots come along and show a loathing and intolerance to cultures other than their own. Ask anyone who has taken part either as a competitor or spectator, and they will verify what I say. Any issues or rivalries I have as an Englishman with (say) Scotland (not that we ever play them in anything serious anymore) Germany or Argentina are purely football issues or rivalries. Nothing more, nothing less. I've always hugely enjoyed myself in Scotland and Germany and would love to visit Argentina. I was in the Costa Brava/Barcelona region during the 1986 World Cup when Thatcher was at war with Galtieri, that didn't mean that I and other English fans with a bit of intelligence and reasoning couldn't walk side by side with Argentinians to matches, drink in the same bars or eat in the same restaurants despite the best efforts of The Daily Mail and it's readership of bigots, The Sun and it's own rather thick and juvenile readership to spoil the occasion. I was in Dresden three years ago, it didn't mean I went around humming "The Dambusters" like some Sun reading moron ~ if I had I would have expected to be have been ostracised (that's nothing to do with big birds Aus, so don't get excited) and I very much doubt that when Stefano lived and worked in Italy he went around addressing them as "Dirty Cheating Spinks"Those with phobias of other cultures should stay at home and swear at the telly. |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on Jun 7, 2010 8:50:25 GMT
And that sums up the PC lack of a sense of humour and taking themselves far to seriously. There isn't a rascist bogieman hidden behind any of these nicknames. No phobias or ugly intent, just good natured banter. I'm certain that when i watch the game with several of my yankie mates the banter will be flying. The wind ups have started and will probably be brutal, it's all part of the fun. Anyway, we invented America and they can't play football without playing in poofy helmets and padding. To which they reply citing british dental hygiene and how if it wasn't for them we'd be krauts! Bloody colonials!! We better win or my life is going to be hell for weeks!
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 7, 2010 9:17:46 GMT
Yes Dave, you carry on on your little bubble. Perhaps if you were actively involved with kids from many differing ethnic backgrounds ~ some that are made out to be of some sort of "Bogey Man" culture ~ kids who have learned to play with, and compete against others from equally diverse cultures without it ever being an issue or basis for derogatory name calling; you would realise that it is not about being "PC" it is about common sense and minimising the chances of there ever being a tragedy that arose out of such behaviour getting out of hand. I had a kid in my home yesterday ~ a friend of Anthony ~ who was in tears because of some so called "micky taking" that hurt him badly. Nothing to do with his Polish/Jamaican heritage thanks goodness, but because he couldn't handle being called "Four Eyes" and then having the piss taken out of him when he took his glasses off but then couldn't really see to play football. In my little bubble Dave, we have a zero tolerance attitude to that sort of behaviour. Anthony's friend's name is Zidane by the way.................the fact that his parents admiration of a great footballer is not tainted by nationalism is there for all to see. I also have an ex girlfriend who's youngest son is called Diego ~ no hatred of "Argies" in that family either then......................you see, there are people capable of rising above the base line of your sort of "humour".
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petef
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Post by petef on Jun 7, 2010 9:22:00 GMT
I bet you love Maradona `eh Merse, never called him anything did you? B0llocks, get off your high horse before someone pushes you off! No, I detest him as an individual, a cheat and a drug abuser. His nationality has nothing to do with it and I don't resort to using abusive terms for that nationality. The point I'm making and you miss is that international tournaments are nearly always a celebration of different cultures and hugely enjoyable and that atmosphere is not best served when idiots come along and show a loathing and intolerance to cultures other than their own. Ask anyone who has taken part either as a competitor or spectator, and they will verify what I say. Any issues or rivalries I have as an Englishman with (say) Scotland (not that we ever play them in anything serious anymore) Germany or Argentina are purely football issues or rivalries. Nothing more, nothing less. I've always hugely enjoyed myself in Scotland and Germany and would love to visit Argentina. I was in the Costa Brava/Barcelona region during the 1986 World Cup when Thatcher was at war with Galtieri, that didn't mean that I and other English fans with a bit of intelligence and reasoning couldn't walk side by side with Argentinians to matches, drink in the same bars or eat in the same restaurants despite the best efforts of The Daily Mail and it's readership of bigots, The Sun and it's own rather thick and juvenile readership to spoil the occasion. I was in Dresden three years ago, it didn't mean I went around humming "The Dambusters" like some Sun reading moron ~ if I had I would have expected to be have been ostracised (that's nothing to do with big birds Aus, so don't get excited) and I very much doubt that when Stefano lived and worked in Italy he didn't go around addressing them as "Dirty Cheating Spinks"Those with phobias of other cultures should stay at home and swear at the telly.1982 Merse I was in Spain also but in Malaga on holiday and watching Scotland, Alan Hanson and all srtruggle as per usual An experience that one - on the coastal train packed with drunken Scots and queing up for tickets (you had to buy the whole batch played at the Malaga ground) in the baking hot 90degree sunshine nurssing a "cheap wine" hangover from the night before surrounded by blue and tartan headcases. Their hate of the English and in particular Kevin Keegan was quite alarming. Still have the ticket stubs somewhere though the matches I got to see were pretty forgetable. |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on Jun 7, 2010 9:34:57 GMT
And again you look for hate where none exists. What you describe is bullying and that is unacceptable and rightly should have a zero tolerance. How crazy would i have to be (living in a foriegn land, born in nigeria with a half french daughter and a thai family) to harbour hatred for any nation? Of course i exempt the jocks and taffs who should be ethnically cleansed! |
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 7, 2010 9:45:36 GMT
Those Scottish fans could be incredible though. I was sitting at Wembley looking like the proverbial "Hamlet Man" (remember that ad?) as they were taking the place to pieces, goalposts and all when I got a tap on the shoulder and one of the Tartan Army asked me with a wink if I would be needing my "ticket source" for the game in two years time. It turned out his source was the British Rail Social Club in Forde Road, NA and they in turn of course got their's from Plainmoor; and you've guessed it: a couple of weeks later there were the same faces peering through my office window and tapping on the glass! So began a fortnight of non stop "socialising" in the Railway Club after work, a massive dent in the Merson Housekeeping kitty and an even bigger hangover. With characters like Alex Jackson, Tommy Sermanni, Freddie Pethard and Bruce Rioch in the club at the time, you can imagine that the Tartan Army had quite a list of good contacts in the Torquay United camp and seemingly a database of all our lottery and ticket agents! ;D
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 7, 2010 9:55:10 GMT
And again you look for hate where none exists. What you describe is bullying and that is unacceptable and rightly should have a zero tolerance. I am not at all. I am saying that such behaviour can , and has; been a catalyst for tragedy. We all owe it to our children to behave and conduct ourselves more responsibly. South Africa is a prime example of a nation that is striving for and needs to achieve greater harmony between many different heritages.................far more complex than an issue between "black and white", if it is to maximise it's massive potential and take it's necessary place at the table of world politic. It (like much of Africa) has had to emerge from a terrible history of racial conflict and downright racist "apartheid" and some of it's states and kingdoms as well as neighburing countries are still battling the evil of ethnic conflict and racism. It is extremely foolish to indulge in so called "racial banter" just because it is a football tournament. |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on Jun 7, 2010 10:06:22 GMT
Correct me if i'm wrong merse. But you seem to condone scottish anti-english behaviour yet think harmless banter between friends is some sort of rascism. There is a difference and it's the failure to recognise it that is the problem. If i want to call a danish friend of mine a dozy viking, where's the rascism? If however i descriminate against someone merely for their colour then it would be obvious. My point is that we are over thinking the whole issue and looking for problems where they don't exist.
Sorry for the off topic stuff.
Now i'm off to do some yank baiting!! God i hope we win!!!
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Post by lambethgull on Jun 7, 2010 11:02:52 GMT
Whilst I wouldn't seek to deny people the right to use whatever words they want (I always prefer to KNOW about people's bigotry and hangups than not know), one surely has to give some consideration to where the dividing line between 'good natured banter' becomes a racist insult.
Would an American calling me a limey, a Scot calling me a sassenak, or an Australian calling me a Pom offend me? If it was over the internet or by a friend or acquaintance, then almost certainly not. I'd probably think differently however if one of those words was used by an American, Scottish or Australian boss during a bollocking, or if one of those words was used in conjunction with the F word on requesting the use of a pool table in a bar in one of those countries.
Similarly, i'd invite anyone who believes words such as 'Paki' and 'black person' are acceptable in day-to-day parlance - and offers the laughable 'argument' that such words are no different from 'Scot' or 'Swede' - to make their case on a South London night bus.
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