Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 1, 2008 14:59:46 GMT
Well just got home and checked out the Herald Express on line, Can't believe that Buckle Is not looking to bring in any players, before the transfer window shuts.
So It seems we will carry on at least until January, playing without a proper right back, a position that should have been top of the list, after the end of last season, this to me seems pure madness.
I really now have to agree and share andygulls concerns about our lack of goals, but having four strikers already, he would not be able to bring in another one. Just who is best to start up front, I still think Sills and Green, need to be given a good chance together.
We will have to see how are next two games go and I really hope we get the six points, If not I fear many will start Buckle out chants and posts.
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Post by crispygull on Sept 1, 2008 15:18:08 GMT
But is it more a case of Buckle having to come out with a statement like that "the squad is good enough" because he knows that the board arent prepared to back him any further?
Only guessing, but to be fair to them (the board) he has more than enough numbers in the squad for this level. The fact that maybe, as fans, we would like a Right Back, a left sided centre half, another striker perhaps is all well and good, and perhaps even Buckle now wishes he could bring those players in BUT he has clearly been given a very generous budget in the summer and he appears to have been backed to the hilt. Whether he should have recruited players in these areas rather than some of the midfielders we have brought in, is open to debate, and maybe even Buckle regrets that now?
But, in all honesty, I couldnt blame the board if they have denied him any more funds for further signings, at least not without players being moved out beforehand? Buckle doesnt strike me as a "wheeler dealer" type, and I dont expect him to have lost faith in his summer signings just yet - there is still time for all of them to come good, hopefully - and so I doubt any of them will be "moved on" at this time, far more likely to happen in the January transfer window I would expect, although whether Buckle is still at the helm by then will very much depend on whether we can turn this season around.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 1, 2008 15:30:27 GMT
crispygull as ever you make good sense, I feel you have got it 100% correct, that the board do not want to back him any further, so saying the squad is good enough is all he can say really.
I like many got carried away with some of the names we signed, in the closed season, not really paying to much attention, to how they would fit together to form a team. For me at least it now seems we simply got in too many midfield players, when as I said other positions were far more a priority.
We can only hope that those now here, can get our season back on track, but I still also worry about how things really are in the dressing room.It is going to take some very good performances to turn things around and they need to start happening soon.
If not we will find other teams will not wait for us to get our game in order, other results have been kind to us lately, we can't relie on that being the case for ever.
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Post by crispygull on Sept 1, 2008 16:14:16 GMT
crispygull as ever you make good sense, I feel you have got it 100% correct, that the board do not want to back him any further, so saying the squad is good enough is all he can say really. [glow=red,2,300]I like many got carried away with some of the names we signed, in the closed season[/glow], not really paying to much attention, to how they would fit together to form a team. For me at least it now seems we simply got in too many midfield players, when as I said other positions were far more a priority. We can only hope that those now here, can get our season back on track, but I still also worry about how things really are in the dressing room.It is going to take some very good performances to turn things around and they need to start happening soon. If not we will find other teams will not wait for us to get our game in order, other results have been kind to us lately, we can't relie on that being the case for ever. Well you can include me in that group! Unfortunately, its pretty clear that as things stand though - some of those signings are likely to be a waste of money. Im not for one moment saying that the players concerned arent decent players, but the fact is that they were brought in to try and make us play more football, and change from the direct style that brought us some success last year. I reckon it was around January time that Buckle first started to try and change things around, perhaps with some pressure applied from his employers? If you look back at his signings then, Steve Adams, Roscoe Dsane and even Jody Banim - they are all footballers who can play a bit, and in the summer he tried to bring even more in, but what does the future hold for them now? Given that Hargreaves (who he planned to use at Centre Half) and Mansell (Right Back) now seem to have been restored as his preferred central pairing partnership what now for Adams, Wroe, Brough and Thompson ? If these guys arent going to figure in the first XI, let alone the first XVI in some cases - then they must all be regarded as VERY expensive mistakes. In Thompson and Brough you have two BSP captains from last season, and Wroe cost us a fee (£15k) whilst Adams will not have come cheap, with his pedigree of playing at League One, and above, level. Another "problem" is trying to get the best out of Matt Green. He came with a very decent reputation having had by all accounts an excellent and very productive (10 goals) loan spell at Oxford at the end of last season, and yet 6 games into the season and he has barely kicked a ball for us this season. His chances of cementing a first team start would probably have also been greater if our "passing game" hadnt been consigned to the bin, as surely now Tim Sills is back to being a "shoe in" in the side given that we are playing a direct style again. This leaves Green, Dsane and Benyon all fighting for that one position alongside Sillsy, given Bucks' prefernce for a 4-4-2 line up. Personally, I would like us to try 4-3-3 which would allow Green AND Dsane to play alongside Sills, with one of our more creative midfielders (take your pick from Wroe, Adams, Thompson or Brough) to play in the hole, with Hargreaves and Mansell doing what they do best in front of our back four. Of course, this would mean abandoning the use of wingers, but in all honesty Messrs Carayol, Carlisle and Stevens have all been too inconsistent for my liking this season and have failed to deliver enough decent quality crosses into the box, to "feed the Sills". I doubt it will happen, but 4-3-3 seemed to serve our neighbours up the road quite well last season, albeit theirs was more of a 4-1-2-3 in all honesty. |
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Post by andygulls on Sept 1, 2008 16:17:53 GMT
Well just got home and checked out the Herald Express on line, Can't believe that Buckle Is not looking to bring in any players, before the transfer window shuts. So It seems we will carry on at least until January, playing without a proper right back, a position that should have been top of the list, after the end of last season, this to me seems pure madness. I really now have to agree and share andygulls concerns about our lack of goals, but having four strikers already, he would not be able to bring in another one. Just who is best to start up front, I still think Sills and Green, need to be given a good chance together. We will have to see how are next two games go and I really hope we get the six points, If not I fear many will start Buckle out chants and posts. Dave the lack of goals and the failure of PB to solve the problem is an established fact, its now somewhat more than a concern  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 1, 2008 16:26:55 GMT
Andy mate one step at a time ;D I moved from not being concerned, to now being concerned, I was and still am just one step behind you.  |
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Post by Swanny on Sept 1, 2008 16:34:08 GMT
What an inspired post, Crispygull, a contender for post of the week I would say ! One other point about our wingers from the matches I've seen, is that I cannot remember one occasion when a winger has taken the ball to the by-line and crossed the ball. The sort of service that Sills thrives on and something we did plenty of last season.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 1, 2008 17:11:56 GMT
What an inspired post, Crispygull , a contender for post of the week I would say ! One other point about our wingers from the matches I've seen, is that I cannot remember one occasion when a winger has taken the ball to the by-line and crossed the ball. The sort of service that Sills thrives on and something we did plenty of last season. It already tops the list |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 3, 2008 3:07:11 GMT
crispygull as ever you make good sense, I feel you have got it 100% correct, that the board do not want to back him any further, so saying the squad is good enough is all he can say really.  That's just pure speculation and assumes that "the board" are as myopic over the opening salvo of the campaign as you and several others are. Have you considered that we might be operating up to or very close to the limit set within the BSP parameters? An indication of that was the "story" that Steve Woods was set to leave for a club three levels below us despite having another two years contract in his back pocket. If he really WAS going to depart, then a considerable severance package would have needed to have been negotiated one would think. Does this also mean that any of the several other clubs who have not felt the need to sign players this week are NOT backing their manager? There is a constant "wish" from certain posters for us to believe that there is widespread unrest within the camp, yet contrary to rumour on this site Nicholson's name has NOT been circulated as available for transfer; therefore he is NOT on any "transfer list". That the manager and his assistant were at a BSP 1 South game together last night would indicate that they were looking at a player would it not, as I fail to see anything other of note to be gained from watching a game in a different division than we play in. No, the start has been poor; the first four performances were stuttering. Despite studying the play hard, I failed to observe that our play at Crawley and at home to York was particularly "hoof ball" as you love to describe it; nor significantly different than most other teams in this division. We could do with a dedicated right back yes, Mansell and Robertson can "do a job" there within reason. We need one of the other strikers to establish themselves to play off Sills. If new personal to both those "problems" is deemed to be the answer then I would say the loan system is the road that the club will go down - and if that is the case then loaning OUT might be the required counter balance to keeping the books straight. |
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Post by crispygull on Sept 3, 2008 8:07:05 GMT
Just to clarify the point I made in my original post about the board not being prepared to back Paul Buckle any further in the transfer market. The intention was not to infer that they have lost faith in him as our Manager, but that perhaps they feel that the squad (21 senior players - all of whom should be considered senior players able to play in the first team when called upon without greatly weakening the team) and the level of financial backing given to the Manager during the summer, is at a level as far as they feel comfortable to go.
Competition for places is already potentially causing problems and unrest in the camp and by sanctioning additional transfers it would only exacerbate the situation. That said, most Managers when given the opportunity to add to their squad and spend (someone else's) money will do so, if they feel the squad could do with strengthening in certain areas, and I dont doubt that Paul Buckle is the same.
I do agree with Merse that if the squad is going to see any new faces, it was always far more likely to see movement being made in the loan market rather than a permanent transfer - and I would expect that if we do get one in, it will more than likely mean one out too.
As for the parameters of what we can, or cannot, spend on the playing budget these days, my understanding was that the wage cap had been scrapped, and was to be replaced by a more sensible system which meant that clubs would have to prove their ability to meet their liabilities, by producing regular returns to the Conference, confirming that their bills have all been paid up to date. I must admit though that I have seen very little in the media confirming that this policy has now been adopted and is now in place.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2008 15:11:42 GMT
There you go Merse twisting things again, but I will reply and just put things nice and straight for you. I will deal with Woods first, then the rest of your post.
TUAFC1 made the post that Woods was to sign for Truro, now this is a person, who I would trust my life with, so I do not disbelieve his post. To go further I will say that not only do I know WHO told him, but where they both were at the time and knowing all of that, I would put money on it being true.
For me to say that seeing I don't bet, means that unlike your normal bets, like when you back a horse in the 2.30. only to find it comes home seventh in the 4.30, I know my money would be very safe. Well the club did not say anything about it, you should know by now its not the clubs way, no, better to keep everything quite, why should fans ever be told anything.
It did not happen, because the club was used by the player they wanted, the one Woods would have had to make way for.He was offered a contract by a club much higher than lowly Torquay, but wanted more than what was on offer. Called their bluff saying he would sign for another team and ended up getting what, or close to what he wanted from that club.
It happens in football all the time, why there are still some who still do not believe that is what Bateson did with the new owners of our club. Not happy with their offer, he too called their bluff, Put Benny back as chairman, who was told his first job was to sack Lee and he did just that. Bateson was well aware the Lee was part of the new boards plans, then he gets Leroy to come and sign up as the manager, sending out the message its business as usual. I believe Leroy knew what was going on and was happy just to get an easy pay day.
Who said Woods was going to be paid up? Rice has signed for Truro, yes its a loan deal, who can say that Woods playing for Truro, was not also going to be a loan deal. Could you have seen Buckles target player, signing more than a one year contract? I don't think he would have, has he wants to play higher than the BSP.
You must also stop the habit of only quoting one lines on any post and trying to make out the poster had a different meaning. Far better to read the whole post and take a more balanced view.I fear that by not doing so will only get other posters into your bad habits.
I can see what will happen next on here, if you keep doing this, So lets say a member makes a post, where he says Buckle made a bit of pigs ear, with his tactics in two very important play off games. I bet you will get some other member, start saying that the poster who made that post, is guilty of being a ring leader in some sort of Buckle out campaign. I know this seems far fetched, but it could happen.
So the original poster might challenge those claims and ask the accuser, to back up what he was saying for shut up. Then unable to show this was in fact true based on reading all the other posts the accused had made, plus the fact that all other members did not agree with these allegations, what might he do.
He could put his hands up and say he got it wrong, get respect for doing so, or he could throw his toys out of the pram and state he will never post again. So you can see my fears Merse and what I don't want to happen on this forum, not when I'm trying my best to get the members to start making posts.
Crisygull who made the post that I then answered made it clear for you, as you seemed to have missed the point, that he was talking about not backing any more players and there was no suggestion, they were not still backing their choice of manager.
Please tell me where you have read, a statement on here that the board were not backing Buckle? lets not start making things up, that will get us nowhere.
I do not know where the talk about Nico wanting out of the club has come from, many seem to believe its true, I do not know myself but other are free to discuss this on the forum it that is their wish. Unrest? well my own gut feeling is that there is some unrest amongest the players and maybe even others.
That Is simply my take and well could be wrong, but If it is then I put put on here that I got it all wrong, but for now, I'll stick with my feelings.It s clear no matter what some may want you to believe otherwise, that some players have left under some cloud or other and while for Ants sake what happened the other day, I do not want to go on about not meeting Desane But.
Ant was due to meet a player he sponsored, who was subbed at halftime, when he had been playing well, the player just goes home after the match. Does the squad not all go the players lounge after a game, to unwind and have a drink together, If not why not?
Crispy went on in his next post about wage capping, Jon has posted about what figures the club would have based its season on, also about the safety net that would be in place. Well my view also is that many fans no longer have the Plainmoor buzz, are starting to feel they are not so close to the club anymore.
The board has played a part in this I'm afraid, the PR is very poor and that is a fact and one I hope they will really take the time to look at. Bank holiday Monday, well in the past I would have expected a gate of 3500 plus for a game on that day, what was it? 2006, well it nearly rose up to 2007, but that is a different story.
Then the next game we see only 1500 plus, yes I know it was on the TV and it was two games in one week, but that can't continue. If it did come January, you will see players having to be moved out, just to try and balance the books.
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Sept 3, 2008 15:29:30 GMT
crispygull as ever you make good sense, I feel you have got it 100% correct, that the board do not want to back him any further, so saying the squad is good enough is all he can say really. Have you considered that we might be operating up to or very close to the limit set within the BSP parameters? An indication of that was the "story" that Steve Woods was set to leave for a club three levels below us despite having another two years contract in his back pocket. If he really WAS going to depart, then a considerable severance package would have needed to have been negotiated one would think. There is a constant "wish" from certain posters for us to believe that there is widespread unrest within the camp, yet contrary to rumour on this site Nicholson's name has NOT been circulated as available for transfer; therefore he is NOT on any "transfer list". If Bucks's recruitment options have become limited due to the fact that we are very close to our limit (However, I too have lost track of the set limits.......even if they exist now) then he really only has himself to blame. You illustrate your point with Woods - why on earth have we got ourselves into a position of having to pay a large severance package to a player who is deemed not good enough only a couple of months after being offered a hefty contract extension? In my opinion, many of our problems this season stem from Buckle's summer recruitment policy - you can excuse the odd bad deal as being part and parcel of football, but it goes further than that and if the board did begin to ask questions then I could hardly blame them. I'm interested in your comments about the Nicholson situation. Can you elaborate any further? Does your information suggest that Nicholson has reacted professionally to his omission from the starting line up? With the signings made, keeping the squad united and ready for action was always going to be a big challenge. According to your information, is there unrest within the dressing room? Thanks |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 3, 2008 16:29:13 GMT
There you go Merse twisting things again, ************************************************** You must also stop the habit of only quoting one lines on any post and trying to make out the poster had a different meaning. Far better to read the whole post and take a more balanced view.I fear that by not doing so will only get other posters into your bad habits. **************************************************** Crisygull who made the post that I then answered made it clear for you, as you seemed to have missed the point, that he was talking about not backing any more players and there was no suggestion, they were not still backing their choice of manager. Dave, you really come across as an old woman at times! To say I have "twisted" something is incorrect........................I was quoting YOU not Crispy - the quote is clearly attributed to Dave R. and that is what you posted. It was YOU who selectively quoted the guy, NOT me. I selectively quoted YOU!The practice of using the quote facility to re-produce a whole post ad nauseum is a ridiculous practice and turns the site into a bore. You also need to get your apparently naive vision of the ways of present day professional football sorted. Long gone are the days of a mass team strong exodus to the bar after a game. Consuming alcohol after exercise is one of the worst practices as regards body recovery and dispersal of lactic acid and this becomes particularly pertinent during a six day, three game run of matches. It is NOT the accepted way of modern day football.............or any other sport for that matter! When I met up with Kevin Hill after Saturday's game at Fisher it was only with his manager's permission, and on the understanding that he did not drink alcohol as they had another game on the Tuesday AND he was the only Dorchester player allowed that privilege! Torquay United (like most clubs in professional football) attempt to carry out their business in the correct manner whilst YOU seem to want them to carry on in your little world where business and sporting decisions are ALL discussed with the fans, where every lick and spit of training ground, dressing room and social life minutiae is revealed on the website and the services to the customer are knocked out at cheap jack rate to the detriment of the profitability of the franchisee! Get real Dave.  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2008 16:46:13 GMT
Well thank you for your kind description of me, I must say Its the first time I have been called an old woman, but hey I can live with it.
Yes you quoted me, but I was only replying to crispygulls post and was simply agreeing with him, about his whole post, where he said he felt the board were not backing anymore players. To use the quote you did, without including the contents of both mine and crispygulls posts, do not properly show what we were both in fact referring too.
I think you will find that most supporters feel, that sadly the club PR is no where near what it should be, times for you to face those facts and stop trying to make out the fans are asking for to much.
I do not know any business that has customers, who feel the best way forward, Is to keep said customers completely in the dark, for most of the time, do you?
PR is good, It keeps everyone on the same side, It helps with those fears any may have, the club can't expect, people just to turn up and nod and not expect information from time to time.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 3, 2008 16:58:24 GMT
To use the quote you did, without including the contents of both mine and crispygulls posts, do not properly show what we were both in fact referring too. That's rubbish, that's what the Thread system is for. Quoting ad nauseum is boring, lazy and the biggest turn off since Joan Rivers got her tits out and got them tangled in her knees! |
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That's just pure speculation and assumes that "the board" are as myopic over the opening salvo of the campaign as you and several others are.
