Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 17, 2008 19:15:06 GMT
You know my views on you 92ndfish and the great idea's you have for the Bay, sadly even being the young man that you are, I don't think you will see good changes happening in the Bay in your lifetime.
I was listening (yes again) to the J.Vine show on Friday, there was a man from a think tank talking, the way he sees things will go in this country do not fair well for Torbay. He sees move movement toward London and the counties around it, more grow there and yes most of the new jobs.
He sees many places in the UK getting smaller as people move to the real growth areas and he said these places will have to make some major changes to keep going.
He did state that the UK decentralising authority in the US style and giving more power to these places would help them, as they could then take some control as to what happened in their towns and cities.
I fail to see how we will ever attract new businesses here, its a hard place to get in and out of and will we ever see our bypass. Nortel gone so many others as well, I hate to say it, but having to be a seaside town and the trade that brings, maybe is all we can ever hope for.
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Post by andygulls on Aug 18, 2008 15:17:15 GMT
You know my views on you 92ndfish and the great idea's you have for the Bay, sadly even being the young man that you are, I don't think you will see good changes happening in the Bay in your lifetime. I was listening (yes again) to the J.Vine show on Friday, there was a man from a think tank talking, the way he sees things will go in this country do not fair well for Torbay. He sees move movement toward London and the counties around it, more grow there and yes most of the new jobs. He sees many places in the UK getting smaller as people move to the real growth areas and he said these places will have to make some major changes to keep going. He did state that the UK decentralising authority in the US style and giving more power to these places would help them, as they could then take some control as to what happened in their towns and cities. I fail to see how we will ever attract new businesses here, its a hard place to get in and out of and will we ever see our bypass. Nortel gone so many others as well, I hate to say it, but having to be a seaside town and the trade that brings, maybe is all we can ever hope for. Dave I had you down as an optimistic type. I am surprised that you will buy into the latest guff that some egg head spouts forth on a national radio broadcast. Yes there are some pretty major infrastructure issues to overcome but if there are more young people like 92ndfish around then the future is less bleak than it might otherwise seem. Just as it is easy for us to concentrate our focus on negatives surrounding our team it is also very easy to focus on what is wrong with Torbay rather than some of the things that make the bay and Devon in general a pretty good place to live. If I recall correctly 92nd fish is not yet twenty and 35-40 years - whilst it can fly by in personal perspectives, (and time moves faster each day it seems to me ;D), such a timeframe is sufficient for significant social and economic change. It just needs the right people, the right opportunities and just a slice of luck to ride alongside. I am sure there are still plenty of people with talent, ability and interest in the bay around locally or close to hand. It may just take someone like 92nd fish to help to drive all of the factors together. |
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 19, 2008 16:44:57 GMT
andygulls,I would say that in general I'm always fairly optimistic about most things. I would also say I'm a very positive person, who will always try to turn any negative into a positive, but what I'm not is a dreamer. I would like to think I'm more of a realist and therefore can look at things how they really are.
I was not taken in by any guff, what the man said is happening, there are places where grow is taking place, more jobs being created, more infrastructure and people are moving to these areas.
Many places up the North, who have lost there main industries have seem major decline in the towns and cities and some are shrinking as people move away.
Torbay will never be a place many businesses would want to set up in, If wanted to start a company and knew I would need to get goods in and also out, I would not set it up in the Bay. To keep it as local as I could , I would set it up at Heathfield, fully aware of the A38 and the ease to go North or South from there.
We now know how many new homes the government want built in Torbay, a staggering 15000, can you tell me where any local people, living on local wages are ever going to even get a mortgage for anyone of those new homes?
So most will be sold to people wanting to retire in the Bay, some will just be second homes, adding very little to the Bays economiy. I mean if they were going to be bought by families wanting a better life, just where would there be any jobs for them.
So what I'm saying is we simply won't get the likes Nortel setting up in the Bay again, most of our young people will leave to find the higher paid jobs, that I believe will never be here. So how do we get Torbay smartened up and thriving again?
Well like it or not we are a holiday resort, Torbay, if not allowed to be ruined by to much further building, Is a beautiful place. We need the council to stop wasting so much money, get all the eyesores removed or improved. We need to get Torbay clean again and get some major attractions in the Bay and NO not a balloon. We need to sell the Bay for its beauty, start to aim to attract family's back to holidaying in the Bay, not just the older ones on coach tours.
We have plenty of well off, older people in the Bay, they have money to spend, we need to look at their needs, dance halls etc, the reason so many hotels go for coaches, is simple. The coach operators know, that those who want those types of holidays, firstly have the time and secondly the money, I know I spent enough time singing to them ;D
Maybe you could tell me just what sort of and economic change, you think could happen? it won't be factories bringing jobs to the Bay, those days are truly gone, so lets see what we have left and all we really have is our wonderful Bay, just think, if we could make it the Monte Carlo of England, there is no reason why we could not.
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Aug 26, 2008 11:00:00 GMT
If the club has planned on 3,000 this season and based its spending on those figures, I feel that may be too high. The club has only around 2300 hard core fans, all the rest are floaters, If the team is top of the table, they will turn up, lose a few games and they stay away. If we start poorly, I really can see gates under 2000, as fans are going to feel the squeeze this year I agree with you totally Dave. There is a strong possibility that gates will average less than 3,000 and we will lose money and even a possibility that we will average nearer 2,000 and lose pots of money. But if you look at last season's figures, FIVE teams averaged over 3,000. You will probably get a big team (Oxford last year) who will massively underachieve and a little team (Burton last year) who will overachieve, but in general you would expect clubs to achieve success in line with crowd levels. So really you would have to budget on 3,000 to "expect" to be in the top 5 i.e. the play-offs. If you budget on less, you would be hoping to overachieve rather than expecting to achieve. So judging how risky or how safe a strategy to employ is far from easy. Because the Board have committed to underwrite losses, they can afford to take an "ambitious" approach. They don't want to lose money. They don't expect to lose money. But if things go wrong they are able and willing to cover our backs without becoming a "club in crisis". If they were not able and willing to do this, you can bet they would have taken a more cautious line - [glow=red,2,300]they would not gamble the club's existence against success.[/glow] Some Torquay fans have always laid "lack of amition" at one man's door. That is nonsense. Tony Boyce was very ambitious from 1965-71 precisely because he knew he had backers to cover any risks - just as Alex Rowe does now. From 1971-84, Tony Boyce ran the club in what some would call a "Batesonite penny-pinching" way - not because he wanted to but because he had to. He understood the risks of assuming that "speculating to accumulate" was not an easy one-way street, and with nobody prepared to underwrite a riskier strategy, he made the most of what he had. I found this an interesting thread a while ago. Sadly it is even more relevant now after our disappointing start became a disasterous one over the last few days. I hope Jon is right when he comments that the clubs backers are able and willing to stop the club reaching crisis point (again). It is early days, and I still have confidence that things can be turned around. However, the signs are that there could be a 'perfect storm' on the horizon with the club saddled with an underachieving, unhappy and unfeasably large squad of well paid players at a time when gates and interest in the club will be at its lowest ever. Add to that the underachieving and large management team, most of whom were rewarded with lengthy contracts and pay rises last year, the options for the club's owners maybe extremely limited. There is football on TV all of this week. York will not bring many on Thurdays - there is very little incentive for anyone other than die hard fans to attend - it is lucky that we have such a large non-playing squad to give the TV cameras the appearance of a crowd! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2008 18:20:20 GMT
i think the gate will be as low as 1800 for the york game as you say its on the tv and some also would not be able to afford two games in one week. I think it the results do not come soon gates will struggle to get about the 2000, so there would you think come a time when cuts would have to be made somewhere.
Having a manager who is not getting results not only cost points on the table but lost money though the gate one more reason why i think the board would take action, i would hope they did not leave it to late like bateson always did.
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Post by tufcwewillbeback on Aug 27, 2008 9:14:36 GMT
I have to agree that we will se a low gate for the York game. The bank holiday gate of only two thousand is really dissapointing and the York game is in the evening and on Setanta. Im going for 1,500.
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