Football in Kent

We beat them 2-0 in the FA Youth Cup in 1995.

But I didn't mention them because the original question was "First team or reserves" - it didn't say youth team.

That's my defence and I am sticking to it.

I was talking about their Southern League team. After Budleigh mentioned the Margate link, I checked Arsenal Reserves on Wiki (yes, I know Wiki is not totally reliable). Wiki says that Margate was the nursery club from 1934 to 1938, and that the Southern League fixtures in 1938/39 were played at Enfield.

The most obscure one would probably be Purfleet.

The 2003/04 season gives the historian with a conscience a bit of a problem. Two seasons earlier would have been o.k., one season later they would at least have a name relating to where they played - and you could leave the silly "Dons" affectation off so as not to encourage them. I'm never quite sure what to call "that lot" between 2002 and 2004 - any advance on "Franchise FC" ?

Youth Cup results from 1974 to 2004 are here :

www.tufchistory.co.uk

It’s really gratifying to read the contributions to this thread. Often - when I venture off on topics like this - I fear they’ll bomb and serve only to add to the pile of my own rambling, self-indulgencies. But, of course, somebody nearly always has thoughtful and well-researched observations to add. Thank you.

Anyway, that link to Margate FC’s history makes fascinating reading, nothing more so than the trials and tribulations of the last few years. I’m now pretty confused about what’s happened to the ground but, at least, it explains the difference between what Merse saw in 2001/2002 and what I saw last week. I’d describe the present scene as being fairly typical of the Isthmian League or Southern League 1st Division: permanent structures on two sides, Portakabin World along another and nothing at all behind one goal.

And what about the FA Cup tie against Cardiff during 2002/2003 played at Dover? "There’ll be Bluebirds over the White Cliffs of Dover….."

As for the town of Margate itself, it’s all rather unfortunate. It’s always had a reputation for catering for the hoi polloi – as the history books say – but I sense it’s ventured further down the hill in the years since Ronnie Biggs declared his lasting wish to walk into a Margate pub as a free-again Englishman (which, we’ve been told, he’s too far gone to achieve now). Margate has its moments – there’s a certain similarity with the front at Weymouth, right down to that lovely golden sand – but reports of dozens of empty shops (more than I’ve seen elsewhere) and grotty overcrowded streets full of bedsits are true. In that odd seaside way, the once-grandest streets – with those massive, almost unmanageable four or five storey 19th century terraces - are the ones which have gone most to seed (doesn’t Ilfracombe have that sort of problem too?). This was most evident to us in Cliftonville where we encountered a few dubious characters on our way to see the truly-bizarre Margate Shell Grotto (if you like a good seaside mystery, go to www.shellgrotto.co.uk for more. Who made the grotto? And when?).

Dreamland looked unwell, and neglected, as did the most horrible block of flats I’ve seen on a seafront anywhere (I’ll put up a picture later), making you speculate whether Margate was once twinned with some Stalinist resort on the Black Sea. But, as this thread shows, there are plans to reopen Dreamland just as the town is attempting to cash in on the cultural market with the building of the Turner contemporary art gallery (the painter JMW Turner - 1775–1851 – had strong links with Margate). Mind you, it’s tempting to ask if some of the work of Tracey Emin – another local – is based around a fair few lurid Thanet nightmares.

On the topic of Canterbury City, it seems it was pretty careless of Canterbury, Maidstone and Dartford to all lose their old football clubs and grounds. Each appears to be on the way back with Canterbury slowly moving up the leagues and enjoying more publicity than I expected in the local media. They’re ground-hopping at present but there are plans for a “football development centre” (or something like that) with community training and coaching facilities alongside a small stadium.

Using the resources of the Geograph site I’ve found this picture of Margate’s ground:



This, I imagine, is the entrance to the former Kingsmead Stadium at Canterbury (you’ll need to look elsewhere for the postcard shots of Canterbury Cathedral, I’m afraid). "And did those Merse/in ancient times/walk…" (well, he may have done in 1964)



Geograph also has a view of the ground of Snowdown Colliery Welfare who used to play in the Kent League and enter the FA Cup. This is in the village of Aylesham which was a planned estate for miners moving to the Kent coalfield from the 1920s onwards. Many of these men, and their families, came from Scotland, the North East and South Wales. All told, coal was mined in Kent for the best part of a hundred years until 1989. In fact it was only discovered when they had the first attempt at building the Channel Tunnel in 1890 (I hope this isn’t an urban myth).

The first pit was near Shakespeare Cliff between Dover and Folkestone; later mines followed at Snowdown, Betteshanger, Chislet and Tilmanstone and elsewhere. Although many of the miners lived in new villages such as Aylesham and Elvington, the pit deputies often lived on smaller estates next door to their collieries. The main exception were the Betteshanger miners who were accommodated on a big housing development on the outskirts of the rather genteel resort of Deal.

It would be fascinating to know more of the football history of the area. Certainly both Betteshanger CW and Snowdown CW were in the Kent League in the 1940s and 1950s and even faced each other in the FA Cup. Between them, the two mining teams managed to beat most of the Kent town teams in the Cup (including Maidstone, Gravesend & Northfleet, Dover, Canterbury, Folkestone, Ramsgate, Ashford and a few more).

And now it’s all gone, save for the houses, a few pit buildings and the odd social club. It’s said many young people in Kent are unaware the county even had a coalmining industry (just as Somerset’s coalfield is rapidly becoming forgotten). In a South Devon context, I suppose it’s as if coal had been discovered 120 years ago inland of Dawlish and along the Teign Valley. Imagine Dawlish’s population swelled by South Wales miners and rare old South Devon League ding-dongs between the Geordies of Teigngrace Miners Welfare and the Scots of Chudleigh Knighton Colliery Welfare. That surely would have added a twist to our football history of Newton Abbot (and, anyway, what of WBB’s contribution?).

Snowdown Colliery Welfare, Aylesham:



Old pit buildings at Snowdown:



Leaving the football aside, here’s the promised picture of those flats on the front at Margate:



The next Geograph picture may well belong in the legendary Castles Thread. It’s the mock castle at Kingsgate. There are people who believe the folk who built this pile may also have been responsible for the mysterious Margate shell grotto:



Walking from Margate to Ramsgate we chanced upon the rather pleasant beach at Botany Bay, close to North Foreland and pretty much at the start of the chalk cliffs coast which extends westwards to Beer in East Devon:



Here’s a well-known sight on the Kent coast: the towers of Reculver. There was a complete church on this site until 200 years ago when the parishioners started to fear its demise due to coastal erosion. Consequently, the church was demolished and re-established inland. Trinity House, meanwhile, asked for the towers to be retained as a navigational aid – and even went to the trouble of rebuilding them after a storm in the 19th century:



A barrier to navigation in the Thames Estuary are the Maunsell forts constructed as part of our WW2 defences (with similar structures also being placed on the entry to Liverpool). Many people would remember the forts as home to the pirate radio stations of the 1960s. It’s possible to see several clusters from the coast between Whitstable and Reculver:



And I guess this thing would be another barrier to navigation if you encountered it on a foggy night. We saw it in Ramsgate harbour last week but couldn’t work out its purpose. Can you?



Lastly, a recommended tea stop at the former coastguard station next to the Dover Patrol memorial near St Margaret’s at Cliffe. I stopped there when walking from Deal to Dover but would suggest that, should you ever pause there for a cuppa, you take care when making a call on your mobile. You may well find, like me, you’re suddenly on a French network as it’s just about the closest point to France...

Another revived thread from several years ago. By my reckoning Dover is the farthest east I've ever seen Torquay United. But the club has made a more oriental trip (for a competitive first team fixture) to Margate for a FA Cup tie in the 1930s. Beyond that you're talking about the 1967 German tour.

Anyway first up from last week is the Crabble. Dover Athletic play on the top pitch; Dover's rugby team on the one below (which once hosted both cricket and football). Kent CCC played over a hundred first-class matches (and a handful of Sunday League games) at the Crabble up to the mid 1970s.

The Crabble lies at the top end of the valley which contains Dover's town centre and the old road to London. It's just about as far away from the port as is possible yet it's slightly reminiscent of Torquay Recreation Ground. A similar era but rather better laid out for cricket.













Browsing in a bookshop last week I saw a wonderful picture of Colin Cowdrey and the Kent team at the Crabble. I couldn't find it online but managed a sneaky snap when visiting Waterstone's in Exeter this afternoon. It’s from Chris Arnott's Britain's Lost Cricket Festivals. I checked that, in contrast to many other pictures in the book, it wasn't part of the Roger Mann Collection. I wouldn’t have wished to have been involved in an issue about unauthorised use so close to home.



The gates of Folkestone Invicta's ground were open for me after walking the cliffs from Dover. There's been recent damage. The main stand has lost its cover after a storm; its seats moved to the opposite side. The club is in the Isthmian's lower southern section. It could do better: Folkestone is a bigger (and probably more prosperous) town than Dover. An earlier Folkestone club once had aspirations - maybe misguided - towards Football League membership. Our reserves certainly had a poor record there on their visits before the war. I rather like the view of the downs and the lone tree behind the goal:














Another picture lifted from Chris Arnott's book. Kent CCC occasionally played at the cricket ground next door to the football in Folkestone. It's now in the shadow of Morrison's supermarket. See those downs again which these days overlook the Channel Tunnel entrance:




Maidstone United were briefly members of the Football League. But the town never saw League football because the club was playing at Dartford at the time. Older Torquay United supporters reading this forum may well remember our games against Maidstone there. Poor old Phil Lloyd will do too. The history of the club's demise, its rebirth and subsequent nomadic existence has been well-documented. Indeed there's been an exhibition telling the tale at the Kent History and Library Centre, slap bang next door to Maidstone's new ground on the edge of the town centre.

I'd been wanting to take a look at the Gallagher Stadium since the club moved back to town a couple of years ago. The chance came when an Isthmian League Cup tie against Tonbridge Angels was suddenly announced to be played forty-eight hours after our game at Dover. How could this be when Maidstone were due at Wrexham in the FA Cup just two days later? Answer: the tie was arranged solely so a Maidstone player could serve a suspension in time for Wrexham.

Under no illusions then. This would be a game between a severely-depleted Maidstone team and a merely greatly-depleted Tonbridge side (the visitors now playing Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday). I think the average age of the players involved would have been close to seventeen; I'd love to know the number of "first-team debuts". 4-0 to Tonbridge; their willingness to play the fixture at a convenient time being duly rewarded. The crowd was 460; low by Maidstone's standards but incredibly respectable when everyone would have known "the score" in advance (if not quite literally). An artificial surface, as you may appreciate by now, and a site ripe for expansion. Less than ten minutes walk from Maidstone East station; I've a feeling Torquay United will be visiting within just a few years.

I'd echo gullone's comments. I missed this entirely back in 2009 and it makes an interesting read, now enhanced by this fine recent update from Barton.