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Post by bluedragon on May 25, 2014 11:18:51 GMT
I made a post on another thread but found this fascinating thread as well! Here is some information on Scottish Internationals that may be of use.
Hugh Brown - in the programme extract in the first post it says Hugh Brown only had one Scottish Cap. He actually won 3 Full Caps:
Wales 19th October 1946
Belgium 18th May 1947
Luxembourg 24th May 1947
He also made some other representative appearances
Unofficial match
British Army of the Rhine 28th May 1947
Scottish League XI
Football League 12th March 1947
League of Ireland 24th April 1948
You already have Matt Elliott and Bruce Rioch but here they are anyway:
Matt Elliott
18 International Caps
Bruce Ricoh
24 International Caps
Former managers
Allan Brown
Won 14 International caps for Scotland including playing in the 1954 World Cup Finals
Alex Massie
Won 18 Full International Caps and played for the Scottish League XI in 6 matches
Under 23 or Under 21 Internationals
Craig Easton - Player 986
22 Under-21 Caps
David Graham – Player 873
8 Under-21 Caps
Eddie Kelly - Player 537
4 Under-23 Caps
Ray McKinnon – I cannot find him on your list of players so perhaps he never turned out for the first team. I have being at Torquay at around 2000/01?
6 Under-21 Caps
James McNichol – Player 576
7 Under-21 Caps
Much, much older!
Patrick Concoran
Scotland XI (trial) 1923
Thomas Miller 1922/23
3 Full Caps
2 Scotland XI
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 25, 2014 12:24:39 GMT
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Post by Jon on May 25, 2014 12:36:35 GMT
We tried to sign him permanently later that season, but his mum would not let him sign for us! WMN 27/2/46  |
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Post by bluedragon on May 25, 2014 13:33:47 GMT
Many thanks for the information and links to other threads. Great stuff.
On Bob Preston I can confirm that he was not a Scottish International although around this time there was another "Preston" who was a Junior International but I do not know if they were related or if that might be the source of the press report you mentioned.
You will be interested to hear of Hearts plans, on the centenary of the start of the Great War, to commemorate "McCrae's Battalion" of which Bob Preston was one of the first to enlist. The Hearts photograph on the other thread was taken just minutes after a number of the players had enlisted. At the end of 2013 a bronze relief of this famous photograph was unveiled at Tynecastle. Despite the financial/administrative turmoil off the field the club has not forgotten the need to remember the players who lost their lives or, as in Bob Preston's case, were wounded. They have decided that for 2014/15 the team will wear a replica kit from that time with no advertising on the shirt.
www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130927/1914-plaque-unveiled_2241384_3472649
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2014 14:51:43 GMT
Glad to see Jon has responded to Bluedragon's most welcome interest with a series of carefully-researched links.
Yes, we have previously discussed those Scottish players of the 1920s; a fascinating tale. And, with all this discussion of our very own Edwardian Welsh superstar - "We've got Crad Evans, who needs Gareth Bale?" - perhaps it's about time to launch a thread entitled "Torquay's Scots".
I can hear Jon yodelling "Oh Willie, Willie..." as I type these words. I wonder, for example, who was the first Scot to make an impression on football in the Torbay area?
I'm sure we'll unearth dozens and dozens of names. Not so many more recently, I suspect, than further back. The lessening influence of Scottish footballers on the English game has been frequently-discussed. But try saying that at Sheffield United: I think there are occasions when they fielded six Scottish players last season. Just like old times!
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Post by Jon on May 27, 2014 21:48:13 GMT
On Bob Preston I can confirm that he was not a Scottish International although around this time there was another "Preston" who was a Junior International but I do not know if they were related or if that might be the source of the press report you mentioned. Bob's brother Harry played for us in the 1922/23 season - centre forward and left wing - before joining Bristol City. Could be him? |
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Post by Jon on May 27, 2014 22:01:13 GMT
who was the first Scot to make an impression on football in the Torbay area? According to Bill Luscombe, that would be “greatest professional of all time” Andrew McLuckie. But he didn't exist. www.torquayfans.boards.net/thread/8532/andy-mcluckieThe reserve team that won the East Devon Cup in 1911 (pictured with the first team below) contained a Donald McMorran. Research confirms that he was born North of the border - the Devon / Somerset border - in Wellington. His father was from Scotland though.  Actual Scottish-born may well have to wait until the class of 1922. |
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Post by bluedragon on May 27, 2014 22:32:24 GMT
On Bob Preston I can confirm that he was not a Scottish International although around this time there was another "Preston" who was a Junior International but I do not know if they were related or if that might be the source of the press report you mentioned. Bob's brother Harry played for us in the 1922/23 season - centre forward and left wing - before joining Bristol City. Could be him? Thanks. The "Preston" I have is Thomas Preston who was born on 2nd May 1921 in Loanhead near Edinburgh (the birthplace of Bob). Thomas was a Right Half and was capped at Junior level out of local club Loanhead Mayflower. He joined Airdrieonians, played in 320 league games and played for a Scotland XI in a trial on 7th March 1925 and for the Scottish League versus the Irish League on 29th October 1924. I will try and see if they are related. The only details I have on Harry is that he joined Albion Rovers in 1927/28 after leaving Torquay United. It would be good to know if you have more details of his English career. |
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Post by bluedragon on May 28, 2014 7:14:30 GMT
My apologies 2nd May 1921 was not a date of birth but his date of signing for Airdrieonians.
I have now checked and all three of the Prestons are indeed brothers. The 1901 Census has them living in Dalmeny near Edinburgh with their father working in the shale oil industry. The ages are given as Thomas 7, Robert 5 and Harry 3. The Census has all three boys born in Lasswade again near Edinburgh and that is only a couple of miles from Loanhead where young Thomas came to prominence as a footballer.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 9:03:07 GMT
The reserve team that won the East Devon Cup in 1911 (pictured with the first team below) contained a Donald McMorran. Research confirms that he was born North of the border - the Devon / Somerset border - in Wellington. His father was from Scotland though. There's a reference to the McMorrans on the Stanley Reed thread. A family of that name is listed in the Torbay Household and Business Directory 1910/1911 at stables on Warberry Road West. A family history site, maintained from Queensland, shows Donald's father - a groom - to have been born in Girvan. There were eight children: the first six (including Donald) were born in Wellington; the other two in Torquay. So that's the McMorrans looking after the horses while Crad tunes the pianos. Possibly dray horses providing the beer that lubricated Torquay's burgeoning association football scene? |
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Post by bluedragon on May 28, 2014 18:43:30 GMT
The reference to Andrew or Jasper McLuckie is interesting. I am fairly sure that there in no Andrew who played league football in Scotland but Jasper looks more promising. I am not absolutely sure but his name might actually be James. Jasper did play one game for a Scotland XI. He played for the Anglo-Scots versus the Home Scots on 20 March 1901 to help select the team to play England. These trials were quite big games at the time - a crowd of 10,000 watched this one. He was not selected.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2014 20:32:58 GMT
Under 23 or Under 21 Internationals: Craig Easton - Player 986; 22 Under-21 Caps David Graham – Player 873; 8 Under-21 Caps Eddie Kelly - Player 537; 4 Under-23 Caps Ray McKinnon – I cannot find him on your list of players so perhaps he never turned out for the first team. I have being at Torquay at around 2000/01?; 6 Under-21 Caps James McNichol – Player 576; 7 Under-21 Caps I'm sure we would have had a few one-time Scottish youth internationals - u18s only for many years; various age groups more recently - but these are harder to track down. One who comes to mind is Willie Brown who was often described as a "former Scottish youth international". I guess it's entirely plausible that he would have been capped as a Burnley player around 1968. Another would be Scott Laird - now at PNE who we briefly had on loan from Plymouth - who played for Scotland at several age levels before being capped for England C whilst with Stevenage. |
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Post by bluedragon on May 29, 2014 19:34:59 GMT
One who comes to mind is Willie Brown who was often described as a "former Scottish youth international". I guess it's entirely plausible that he would have been capped as a Burnley player around 1968. Another would be Scott Laird - now at PNE who we briefly had on loan from Plymouth - who played for Scotland at several age levels before being capped for England C whilst with Stevenage. Willie Brown was capped at Under-18 level for Scotland. He played in the UEFA Under-18 Championship in 1968 held in France. Scotland played three games. I only know for sure that Willie played in one game. He played in a 2-0 win against Belgium on 11 April 1968 in Aix-en-Provence and scored a goal after just 12 minutes with a 20 yard volley,
Scott Laird played and captained Scotland at Under-16 level.
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Post by Jon on May 29, 2014 21:02:23 GMT
scored a goal after just 12 minutes with a 20 yard volley That sounds like our Willie! All together now: Knees up Willie Brown Knees up Willie Brown Up the table ..... |
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Post by Jon on May 29, 2014 21:21:58 GMT
The only details I have on Harry is that he joined Albion Rovers in 1927/28 after leaving Torquay United. It would be good to know if you have more details of his English career. I don't even know who Harry played for before us. The report of his signing (WMN 17/8/22) tells us he is a fast and clever "Scotch" forward and brother of Bob. News of his departure (WMN 19/4/23) says he was transferred to Bristol City for whom he played last Wednesday. The Western Daily Press of 12/4/23 reports this as a trial for BC Reserves against a (Bristol) Suburban League XI. Preston never played for City's first team - I doubt if he stayed there very long. So you've got four missing seasons before he turned up at Albion Rovers. He can't have been anyhwere too exciting because the Dundee Courier 13/8/27 notes "has seen service at Torquay" as his career highlight when reporting his joining Albion. Seventeen SL games and six goals at Torquay. Played the first four games of the season at centre forward, lost his place but came back for another thirteen games on the left wing. |
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