What if...Torquay had been a Rugby League town?

The thing is Barton if that had happened, would Torquay United never have been formed by the two local teams? I see no reason why anything would have changed, I'm sure it would as it still does come down to what game you are draw too.

Rugby was never big around Newton Abbot when I grew up, yes I do remember being aware of the All Whites playing at Newton Abbot, but mainly only because a teacher from school, played for them.

At 12 years old the TV at home was filled with the 1966 world cup and as we won it, I think many young people became so much more aware of football than rugby anyway, but that really only explains why I'm a football fan and not a rugby one.

Maybe if there was no TUFC when I was young and rugby was the main sport played here, who knows I could have followed the game and even became a fan of it. You look at the North of England and many rugby clubs are better supported than some of the lower league football clubs.

Weighing all that up I still believe I would have still been a football fan, to me when the game is played as it should be, it is a much better spectacle, where skillful players can we really shine and stand out. The rules are much easier to understand and I think the whole game is so much more pleasing on the eye.

So Barton you ask would we be Plymouth fans? When I was young in Newton Abbot, TUFC were close to Newton Spurs, so most people were so much more aware of Torquay than they were Plymouth.

Most I knew always claimed to be TUFC fans, but that has all changed now. I think Plymouth has more fans in Newton these days and even Exeter has more than it used to have. I think with more people now working in Exeter, more so the younger people, they may have gone to Exeter games as most of their work mate etc, would be city fans.

For me as my first trip to Plainmoor was not even my idea, just my mates taking me, as they had been before, I would have to ask if they had not done that, would I even be a football fan, let alone a Plymouth one. I simply do not know, yes I liked football and was a part of spurs as a kid, would that have been enough for me? or was there really a calling to Plainmoor for me.

What if....Devon was a first-class cricket club, instead of Somerset, and Torquay was the County Ground?


Well Barton the easiest question you have asked so far and I will tell you why.I simply do not like cricket no matter what level it is played at. Its slow boring and they still don't know how to work out the scores properly, or even who should win.

I did try and play the game and was in the Unigate team in Torquay and Walls Hill was our home pitch. What a joke playing cricket is there anyway, a four or a six on that pitch does not go as far as on a flat pitch. What about those silly things I had to put on my legs, they bloody well nearly come up to my chest.

Cricket is one sport I would never ever pay to watch, it was bad enough when they wore white clothes, but now it seems any colour goes, it maybe called the English mans game, but sorry I would rather watch a tidily wink contest.

Well I knew it could not have been a cricket match Barton, they would have been sitting on the pitch, its easy to field there anyway, you just watch the ball go past you, stand still and wait till it rolls back down the hill to you. ;D

Ssshhhh Dave, Walls Hill was my home ground when I played for Babbacombe until I left the area to work in London. Great place to play - unique would be the world - and the scene of some of my finest sporting moments.

I agree that some cricket can be very boring, but some if you take the time to watch it properly can be as exciting as the best football match you care to offer me (and Hoffenheim v Bayern last week was the most recent of those).

Although it's not my first 'love' sports-wise, it is the sport that has enabled me to travel the world, visit a second Torquay and even meet some nice Australians!!!!

I saw that game as well - might even still have the programme at home, with all the rules printed in it to help those in the crowd.

I wanted to have a chat about this one on Saturday. Chelston and I spent half-time scanning the popside around the edge of the Ellacombe end penalty box for a mysterious man in a mask We sought him here, we sought him there - that damned elusive Barton Downs

The mention of Rugby Union is one of those things – like Milton Keynes, Team Bath or Exeter City, guaranteed to set me off on a grumpy old man rant, even though I’m far too young to be a grumpy old man.

Apart from the fact that Rugby Union is a deadly dull and over-complicated game, I cannot stand the snobbery, the hypocrisy and the holier-than-thou, we’re-so-superior attitude.

Rugby League doesn’t have the attitude and is a little faster moving, but it’s still not a game that appeals to me at all.

I have read, and would certainly recommend to anyone interested in local sports history, the history of Torquay Athletic RFC by Ray Batten. The reason I did so was of course because the fates of Tics and TUFC were so linked in the first quarter of last century. I certainly learned a few things that I did not know and corrected a few things that I had misinterpreted.

I had always thought that Tics had decided in 1904 that they WANTED to leave Plainmoor and take over the Rec because they thought that the Rec was a superior venue. In fact they were thrown off Plainmoor by the Careys who had building plans. I can now understand why, threatened with being homeless, Tics wanted the Rec and am a little more sympathetic than when I thought they had a choice in the matter. In fact, Tics felt that playing in a sparsely-populated area way from the working-class fan base was a big disadvantage – they were right!

I learned that although Tics celebrated their centenary in 1975, they had not actually been formed until 1886. It is amazing how many formation dates of sports clubs are written into history without anyone making any attempt to check them – as indeed happened at TUFC.

I also found out that Tics had been the original tenants at the Rec and played there for two seasons 1888-1890, before there was a falling out over money which led to Tics being lured over to Paignton for a season by the rival Paignton Cycling Company. The Tics book is a reminder that money is not just a curse of modern sport.

There was certainly a fight for the South West between League and Union with Torquay in the front line. The decisive battle took place in the close season of 1913 – and sums up the difference between the two codes. The lease on the Rec was up and both factions wanted the ground. A compromise of a groundshare was mooted with Union and League having alternate weeks.

The League side was straight and honest – they wanted the full lease but would accept a share if that was what was on offer. Tics insisted that they absolutely had to have the full lease as the RFU would not allow them to share with a RL team. This was exposed as a barefaced lie – many Union and League teams shared grounds.

So what did the Council decide? Go ahead with the groundshare idea? Punish Tics for their dishonesty by giving the lease to the League side? No. Surprise, surprise – Tics got the lease. It’s not what you know it’s who you know. Nudge nudge, wink wink, funny handshake, say no more.

The emergence of a league faction in Torquay was partly due to the evidence that Rugby was losing the popularity battle to soccer. By 1912/13, soccer was well ahead – totally unthinkable a few years earlier.

Losing the Rec in 1904 was a short-term blow to TUFC and certainly set the club back a few years. In the longer term, it almost certainly benefited soccer. When Town were formed in 1910, they were playing an exciting game in the heart of Torquay’s working class territory. Tics were playing a dull game over in a sparsely-populated area.

If League had ousted Union in 1912 or 1913, it may have won back a few followers, but Plainmoor was still more convenient for the masses and, having tasted the delights of soccer, many would not have gone back to Rugby – even if it was a livelier version of the game. In that scenario, I think that TUFC would still be more or less where it is today.

What might have tipped the balance might have been if Tics had stayed at Plainmoor and had swapped codes a few years earlier - before soccer really took off. A successful Rugby League side at Plainmoor, with none of the Union snobbery, would have kept hold of mass support and might well have resisted an emerging soccer team over the other side of town at the Rec. That situation could well have produced a scenario of Torquay RFL in professional national leagues today with crowds of 2,000+ at Plainmoor, with TUFC maybe the size of Taunton FC having spent its history in the Western and Southern Leagues. Tics would be public schoolboys and blazers only at Tor Vally North.

Who would I follow then? I don’t really know – it would partly depend on what friends did. As things are I’m a mad TUFC fan because I really like soccer and I enjoy the social side. Divide those two up, which would I choose?

The nearest I have found myself to that situation was when I spent a year in SW France – deep in Rugby territory. The local soccer team was rubbish – “Promotion d’Honneur”. The quality of play was bad, there was no atmosphere and when I suggested going to a game with friends, they looked at me as if I was mental. I only went once. A lot of friends went to the Rugby. The atmosphere was good but the games themselves were both incomprehensible and dull. I went quite a few times and enjoyed the afternoon out, but not the game itself. Finally, I bagged a lift to Toulouse a couple of times to see some top-flight soccer. I enjoyed that, without really feeling part of it.

I think that’s how I’d be in the “alternative Torquay” scenario - I’d be a non-committed casual. I’d probably watch the soccer now and again, watch the RL when there was a big game, maybe pop to Plymouth for the odd big soccer match. But I doubt if I’d feel that strongly about any of them. If the lawn needed mowing, I’d probably stay home and mow it.