petef
Match Room Manager 
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Post by petef on Oct 10, 2008 10:31:09 GMT
Have to remain pretty positive after our recent run of results and last night we played our "get out of jail card" with Oxford having a decent penalty shout coup[led with some excellent keeping from Bevan. Whilst I believe that young players finally coming through the ranks will eventually pay big dividends last nights match really wasn't the time to blood a novice and Buckle should really wait for a far more meaningless match to do so. I thought we ran out of ideas as Oxford seemed to take total control in the second half when we resorted to our early season tactics of sitting back. Danny Stevens did pretty well considering the lack of games he has had and has always got an excellent touch and passes intelligently. Hodges though physically stronger offered little down the left. Green ran his socks off and worked hard and the Oxford defense were, understandibly not giving him an inch of space he was at least ocupying them until he tired. After they both went off we were never going to win the game and were lucky in the end to get a point hard to believe when you consider how well we started. Seven matches unbeaten still looks pretty good form to me.  Every match is different and who knows what Sunday and Rushden will bring? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2008 16:03:29 GMT
Have to agree petef that we should remain positive, 17 points from 21 is still very good. Its only late goals again that cost us the other points, but then we have got some late goals ourselves to get some of the points.I have to agree that putting on the 16 year old was a mistake and I think that Paul has done no favors to him.looking forward to the next four games and would hope we will get at least 8 points from those games.
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2008 20:11:39 GMT
Merse there Is no way you can defend putting on a 16 year old In such a game as against Oxford. Trying to claim he was put on to play a Benyon role, Is rather silly, don't you think. We all know what you feel about the short lightweights anyway,what makes you think Yeoman, plays like Benyon, or Is It just that he Is lightweight, must be quick etc.
If players like Green, can't run around for 90Min's then they need some extra fitness training Merse. I forgot did you not say how the players are all benefiting from the extra work that Bucks gets them all to do.It Is good to see that we have young lads who In time may break into our first team, but you do need to BREAK them In, not chuck them In at the deep end.
In true Merse style you will find some way to defend putting him In, may even try to tell us, It really Is a stoke Of genius, but I will tell you It played a big part In us only getting one point instead Of three.
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Post by andygulls on Oct 10, 2008 21:13:42 GMT
Dave Whilst I can see where you are coming form I think the problem remains with the balance in the squad. Loads of midfielders and not enough forwards to cope in the event of injuries as we have now. In the event although it did not work out in terms of the result the 20 minutes or so that the young man had in the game may well work in his favour in the next couple of years. Despite the improved form and excellent performance against Stevenage goalscoring remains our achilles heel, just as I forecast  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2008 21:22:39 GMT
Andy I can't really disagree with you now on the goal scoring front, but do feel that we seem to be tighter at the back and will be happy to win games one nil. I'm sure the young man will feature In our future but this Is the present and I felt we played Into Oxfords hands by making the changes that were made.
You knew they were going to come out second half fired up, but just sitting deeper and deeper, Is only inviting teams to attack and you know that the odds then switch In their favor to score. Keeping players out wide with Sills and Green, who ran into some good spaces all match up front, we could have forced them back a bit and could have created some chances to finish the game Off.
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Post by stuartB on Oct 10, 2008 21:48:26 GMT
Obviously Buckle also feels we are a bit light upfront. He has experimented, fairly successfully, with Thompson. he has also trialled Ashley  at Argyle and enquired about Malcolm at Weymouth. with their money troubles, another enquiry may do the trick |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2008 21:53:57 GMT
The problem Is Stu, that even If we wanted to bring In a forward, unless we could ship out one Or two, we can't afford it. on our currant gates. Maybe that Is why Bucks wanted to see how the young man would do. against league players. My point really Is that we should not be trying out things In games when we are only winning by one goal, If we really want to get promoted.
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AR10
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Torquay Fans Forum Manager
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Post by AR10 on Oct 10, 2008 22:02:54 GMT
Last night with the score at 1-0 was not the time to give the lad a run out, no one has mentioned that he played in a tough game the night before for the youth team scoring in a 4-3 win at team bath, so why was he given the nod ahead of Tyrone Thompson who would have been fresher?
If he was to be given his debut it should be when a game has been wrapped up, Tyrone Thompson should have been the one to come on for green. Bringing on Hodges instead of Carayol changed the whole complection of the game last night. Paul Buckle has showed that he has learnt from his mistakes this season so hopefully this will be another one in his learning curve he has learnt from.
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 11, 2008 7:58:32 GMT
Merse there Is no way you can defend putting on a 16 year old In such a game as against Oxford. Trying to claim he was put on to play a Benyon role, Is rather silly, don't you think. We all know what you feel about the short lightweights anyway, what makes you think Yeoman, plays like Benyon, or Is It just that he Is lightweight, must be quick etc.If players like Green, can't run around for 90Min's then they need some extra fitness training Merse. I forgot did you not say how the players are all benefiting from the extra work that Bucks gets them all to do.  Where have I said "Yeoman plays like Benyon" ? What I did say was 'Yeoman on as a direct swap for a tired Green, (he didn't have either Benyon or Dsane) to play "up on the shoulder of their back line" and thus stop them pressing forward too much and swamping our midfield.'Another instance of you and others of taking what I actually do say, putting your interpretation on it and then berating me for having your opinion! Thompson was available yes, but his strength is not playing "up on the shoulder" (he plays better in "the hole" ) which is obviously what the manager was trying to achieve. Your throw away comment regarding Green and "running around for 90 minutes" is facetious and ignoring the FACTS. Facts which back up the instance of tired players incurring injury more easily. Facts which are that the players are back on the road today with just one day (Friday) in which to shake off the lactic acid build up in muscles after Thursday's match (another "Easter"type schedule) Facts that tell us that we already have Benyon and Dsane unavailable, and the FACT that the player HAS had to put in extra work to cross the gap between fitness demands at OUR club and those of his old club. That's why the club employ a fitness and conditioning coach, it's also why football demands that managers gain proper licensing qualifications which display their understanding of the scientific approach to the modern game and therefore can demonstrate a responsible and sensible "duty of care" towards their players. It seems yet again, that anything less than a home win and the manager has to come under attack hurled with hindsight from people who don't seem to have the slightest clue as to what he was trying to achieve in the first place. Failure to appreciate that he was intent on stemming the opposition pressing forward and attacking Nicholson, and from swamping the midfield by pressing their central defenders forward. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 11, 2008 9:06:50 GMT
While you may not have said in so many words that "Yeoman plays like Benyon" you did say that he was put on to play "up on the shoulder of their back line"
A role that Benyon would play, If Yeoman was asked To play that role, then surly he must be able to fit into the mold Of Benyon, to even be able to play such a role. If he was not able to do that, then playing him In that role was even more Of a bad mistake, as he would not have a clue what was required Of him.
The best advice I can give you Merse Is this, get It out Of your head, that this weeks winner In the post Of the week competition, Enzo only writes to try and rubbish your views. Once you have done that, then take the time to read his posts in a more adjective way and then you may understand more what he and others are saying.
In a balanced world Merse, Its correct and proper that praise should be give where It Is due and that criticism can also be expressed If it is felt justified.It seems as soon as anyone dares to make and comments about Bucks tactic's or substitutions, that In your view may seem negative, they are close to be accused Of wanting Buckle out.
Enzo, you will find makes the point very well, that while Bucks has done well for a new manager, he has been guilty Of making mistakes, ones that would be expected In anyone new to a job. To keep trying to state that he has not made mistakes and keep trying to justify them, would It not be better, to say they have been made and he has learned from them. By doing that we can all move on and look forward to Bucks being a much better manager, as I'm sure that Is what he Is striving to become.
You state
It seems yet again, that anything less than a home win and the manager has to come under attack hurled with hindsight from people who don't seem to have the slightest clue as to what he was trying to achieve in the first place
Firstly any comments have not come about simply because we did not win at home. It was because we were winning and In my view we ended up giving Oxford the draw, rather than us going on to make the win safe. This In my view was done to the substitutions and the tactic's used In the second half.
So I do not know or understand what he was trying to achieve? What I do know Is what ever was being tried, It did not work, hence we threw away two points, points that come the end Of the season, may be the difference Of going up, or staying In this Hell hole for another season.
Unless you got a phone call from Bucks telling you what he was trying to achieve, I would suggest to you, that what you thought he was trying to do, Is just your opinion, nothing else and as we know one that Is not always correct.
So the bottom line Merse, just in case you have missed It Is, that I think as others do, that bringing on Yeoman was not the best decision and played its part In dropping two home points, lets hope another lesson Is leaned by Bucks, so that we can maximize our points total, so we can return to the football league as soon as possible.
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 11, 2008 10:07:33 GMT
While you may not have said in so many words that "Yeoman plays like Benyon" you did say that he was put on to play "up on the shoulder of their back line" So I do not know or understand what he was trying to achieve? Unless you got a phone call from Bucks telling you what he was trying to achieve, I would suggest to you, that what you thought he was trying to do, Is just your opinion, nothing else and as we know one that Is not always correct. Bucks told the world was he was trying to achieve by bringing Yeomans on, during the on pitch interview as the change was made. Try paying attention to the game, the comments and the play instead of judging it by your own agenda. We only have one other player in the squad who's main strength is playing up on the shoulder and it is NOT Benyon nor Thompson for that matter................it is Dsane. The manager told us that Yeomans is a striker and would bring renewed energy to that position. That's good enough for me as I have never seen the lad until then, even if he does get experience in different roles in the youth team; that is for his all round football development and education which is the primary object of youth team football. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 11, 2008 10:26:54 GMT
You are stating to sound like Sean, Merse, with your use Of the word agenda. That Is why people like you can only see their own points Of view as being the correct view. Anyone who's views differs, are then labeled as having an agenda.
Sadly you will never just see that they have a point Of view that differs from your's, well I will tell you, that I'm glad that I have had different view points than yours before. It was people like me who had strong views about Roberts, people like me who really were able to open their eyes and see what was really going on.
Some were blinded by a shinny refection coming Of the roof Of a shinny new stadium, still I'm sure you only felt I had an agenda then as well.I was not the one who had to do a u-turn, not the one who had to eat humble pie, because despite you keep saying that I can't see this or that, I have proved I can and that you really Often do not see the bigger picture.
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Post by tokyogull on Oct 11, 2008 10:56:23 GMT
First post on this site and will be quite rare as I am mainly a lurker living over here in Japan.
Remind me Merse, if you remember, what PB said when interviewed pitchside after he sent Yeoman on. Sitting here at about 5:30 in the morning I just remember feeling highly embarrassed and thought PB would probably feel embarrassed if he heard his own comments. It was along the lines of "he is young so full of energy so will be able to run around a lot and cause them problems".
I thought it was a terrible substitution, and although TV coverage does not show everything, it seems as if he didn't work with Sills at all well.
As for mistakes causing the goals, and hence not being the manager's fault, I cannot agree completely. If PB had stuck Danny Stevens in central defense and he had missed a header, you might say the manager had been complicit in the mistake? An extreme example, but if your front line is not functioning due to a dodgy substitution, and as a result you end up under more pressure defensively, could not a portion of blame be attached to the manager?
PB seems to have 'bucked' up his ideas a bit (did I read somewhere he was sat next to Colin Lee, maybe at the Team Bath friendly??? Maybe an under pressure manager was something CL could relate to and offered his support to PB??? Said "play players in there proper positions???). BUT. Sending Yeoman on made me wonder if PB still has a kamikaze streak. Hopefully bit by bit we will see less of this.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 11, 2008 11:22:44 GMT
tokyogull with posts like that I will have to find ways to get you to post more often I just want to put one more thing to Merse. merse you said The manager told us that Yeomans is a striker and would bring renewed energy to that position. That's good enough for me as I have never seen the lad until then, even if he does get experience in different roles in the youth team; that is for his all round football development and education which is the primary object of youth team football. I think we all agree how great it Is to have the Youth setup back at our club. Do you really believe that In a game where we are only winning by a single goal, against a club who may well be challenging with us, for promotion, we should be giving a Youth player some experience and education, just because Its the primary object of youth team football. Surly the primary object Of the first team Is to win matches and not be used as a nursery school for youth players, who are doing well, but not ready for first team action just yet. |
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Post by Swanny on Oct 11, 2008 12:27:13 GMT
A successful manager needs to make the correct decisions at the appropriate time. Ofcourse he can heavily influence a match with his decision making. It is no co-incidence that some managers e.g. Ferguson, Wenger, O'Neill have had successful careers as managers whatever clubs they have been at, because of their good judgement and decision making. There were times last season and this season when Buckle's decisions have bordered on the bizarre, and it is that what concerns many TUFC supporters.
I can understand earlier this season the need to try players in various positions to see what works and what doesn't bearing in mind we had several new recruits. It's been very clear in previous matches that playing both Nicholson AND Hodges on the left-hand side does NOT work. They simply do not complement eachother at all well. Whereas it's worked using one or the other or using Hodges as a centre back. So that was an awful decision to bring on Hodges and play him on the left with Nicholson again. My expectations just sunk when that happened.
Likewise, bringing on 16 year-old Yeoman for his debut when we were getting over-run by Oxford. It's like if you were a manager of an apprentice car mechanic, would you ease him in gently with some straight forward jobs to gradually build his confidence, or give him a really difficult job to start off with that would really need the expertise and experience of a car mechanic who's been there and done it ? I'm afraid Buckle did the equivalent to the latter. Not a good idea unless you had no other options.
I also don't understand Buckle's after-match comments about bringing on Yeoman, explaining that he could have put Carayol up front but he wanted a cenre forward to partner Sills. But no mention of Thompson who was sitting on the bench, and has done a cracking job partnering Sills on more than one occasion this season. If I was Thompson I would not be very happy getting over-looked like that.
Buckle has done an awful lot of good in recent weeks gradually finding different line-ups of players and formations that have worked well. But Thursday's match still showed he makes bad and rash judgements. How can I forget the bizarre new formations and team line-ups against Exeter in last season's play-offs, it still makes me shudder.
I just hope Buckle can eradicate some of his rash poor decision making, because I actually think he has other really strong qualities e.g. team building, motivation etc. and still could become a successful manager.
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at Argyle and enquired about Malcolm at Weymouth.
