Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 5, 2009 22:54:35 GMT
The real 'oh s**t' moment came when I travelled with Richard Hughes to the Willand Devon Bowl game and he confirmed what many rumours and the HE had suggested, and more besides. I seem to recall we had a lengthy chat with Jon at the game? Yes indeed Jon. You, me and Richard did have a long chat about what was going on - and unbeknown to us there was a mysterious man hidden in the shadows listening to what we were saying. It wasn't some Czechoslovakian spy, it was our very own Bartondowns. I'm trying to piece together the chronolology of it all, but the couple of weeks leading up to the Willand game had already confirmed my growing fears. I seem to recall we had daft comments leading up to the Leatherhead game, the ridiculous anti-diving campaign and the resulting looks on the players' faces, Mickey Evans packing it in as a bad job, the Joe Jacobsen signing spiked in such a way as to undermine the manager, the leaking of some ridiculously indiscreet e-mails from Roberts to fans about Atkins' tactics, growing rumours of financial impropriety, increasingly starey vacant eyes, the £400 wage cap leak - sort of confirmed in the Atkins' Peterborough interview I mentioned, the trip to Dubai and the Lubos wanted Dickie and you could knock me down with a feather e-mails. I had pretty much concluded we were bu**ared, but Richard was in a position to pretty much nail down the coffin lid at Willand. I remember Brian Palk and Mervyn Benney were at Willand and at the end I looked Mervyn in the eye and told him that we fans were relying on him to look out for OUR club. At the next home game, I tracked Mervyn down on the stairs up to what is now the Gulls' Nest. I asked him what was going on and he looked at me and said in his best Devon accent "I don't know what's going on. You're clever - you come and ask him." He showed me through to Roberts' office where he was bullshitting two fans - one of whom was being mooted as the leader of the "alternative supporters club" because the supporters weren't being supportive enough. I glared at Roberts as he spouted and noticed those eyes again - he never could look you in the eye, could he? And what did I find out? That he was going to build us a sparkly new stadium, and it didn't matter if I didn't believe him. He'd even had the plans drawn up - so there.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Mar 5, 2009 23:22:48 GMT
where he was bullshitting two fans - one of whom was being mooted as the leader of the "alternative supporters club" because the supporters weren't being supportive enough. That bit I remember all too well. Rule 1 of the Poor Management Handbook. Divide and Rule. Deluded twerp. Fair play to you, Jon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 7:43:26 GMT
Yes indeed Jon. You, me and Richard did have a long chat about what was going on - and unbeknown to us there was a mysterious man hidden in the shadows listening to what we were saying. It wasn't some Czechoslovakian spy, it was our very own Bartondowns. It was a spy of sorts who had been looking into the activities of Mr Roberts from a very early stage. More in due course about my memories of that season. Haven't posted before because I was at the Herald Cup semi at Coach Road last night - Upton Athletic 2 Kingskerswell & Chelston 1 (very entertaining, rugged, cracking goals, decent crowd) - and I won't be back at the keyboard until late Friday evening.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Mar 6, 2009 8:08:08 GMT
Yes indeed Jon. You, me and Richard did have a long chat about what was going on - and unbeknown to us there was a mysterious man hidden in the shadows listening to what we were saying. It wasn't some Czechoslovakian spy, it was our very own Bartondowns. It was a spy of sorts who had been looking into the activities of Mr Roberts from a very early stage. More in due course about my memories of that season. Haven't posted before because I was at the Herald Cup semi at Coach Road last night - Upton Athletic 2 Kingskerswell & Chelston 1 (very entertaining, rugged, cracking goals, decent crowd) - and I won't be back at the keyboard until late Friday evening. Very good game it was Barton, thought the young Kingskerswell team were unlucky not to win.
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Mar 6, 2009 15:19:48 GMT
Golly, reading these posts and thinking back to that season is frustrating.
Like many others, I had already resigned myself to relegation way, way before the peterborough game. I think right from when we had a terrible Christmas losing at home to MK Dons and Macclesfield I feared the worst..............and finally accepted our fate after the last minute defeat at Accy in the "free game". I'd probably prefer it that way as opposed to going out to a last minute "twist in the knife" moment such as our relegation from League 1. Going out with such a whimper does tend to tarnish the memories of our previous escapes like Crewe in 87, the goal off Duane Darby's belly or lower region at Carlisle ( in 92?) and Barnet. Even the the great escape under Atkins the previous year - that really was a magnificent last six games and our away win at Carlisle on the second to last Saturday is up there with the best away games I have been to. I know many fans could n't stand the football under Atkins (to me it is the same as we play now), but that post match interview was as honest and as heartfelt as they come.
It was clear at the time that many, including Dave Thomas at the HE had grave concerns. Like many fans, I arranged a meeting with Roberts to outline my thoughts. He struck me as a chancer straight away - maybe my mind was made up before I met him. I also met other directors att this time (before the three came out public) and was shocked at their impotence about the whole situation.
Jon - from your generally rational view, if so many fans saw through Roberts, why don't you think Mike Bateson saw through it? Had he just had a gutful by then, did greed get the better of him? For all his faults Mike Bateson was a pretty shrewd businessman and despite the lingering vitriol I'd still like to think he had the best interests of TUFC at heart. Also, could he have stepped in sooner than he did or was he waiting for the first default payment?
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 6, 2009 17:40:31 GMT
Jon - from your generally rational view, if so many fans saw through Roberts, why don't you think Mike Bateson saw through it? Had he just had a gutful by then, did greed get the better of him? For all his faults Mike Bateson was a pretty shrewd businessman and despite the lingering vitriol I'd still like to think he had the best interests of TUFC at heart. Also, could he have stepped in sooner than he did or was he waiting for the first default payment? The second question is the relatively easy one. The deal was structured so that Roberts had control of the majority shareholding as long as he adhered to the terms of the contract. Once he missed a payment, as you suggest, he was in breach of contract and so Bateson regained control of the majority holding. Bateson could not step back in until the contract had been breached. There was a period before the default when Saddler had lost confidence in Roberts. As Roberts was in debt to Saddler, Bryn Walker was left calling the shots on Saddler's behalf. The first question is much tougher. I believe that MB was desperate to get out and wanted to recoup most of the money he had put in. I keep hearing about others being interested in buying, but I've never found evidence of any other credible bids. I don't think that MB would have wanted the club to fall apart, but maybe the more desperate you are to sell the less worried you are about who you sell to. If you were selling your house and really like your neighbours, you wouldn't want to sell to the kind of people you wouldn't want living next door to you. But if you were really desperate to sell, you might be a little less fussy. Can you imagine people's reaction if MB had said that he had a buyer, but he refused to sell because he didn't think the buyer would do as good a job as him and the club would be better off under the Batesons? Roberts' credibility really unravelled when he started poking his nose into football matters and that revealed a lot of his weaknesses. He did appear credible at first. He could talk a good game and he appeared to have very credible backers. He certainly fooled Walker and Saddler - and Saddler paid the price with his pension fund. Saddler and Walker were no fools. When you look at how the world's economy is falling apart, you see that once you dupe one person who you would expect to know better, others will jump into the trap gaining assurance from the others who jumped before them. Bateson may well have thought that if Saddler is risking his pension on this man and Walker his reputation, then I can risk the football club. The deal does seem to have been structured to provide for a fallback situation if it all went wrong. I don't know if that indicates a fear that it might go wrong - probably not as a good lawyer would try to draw up a contract that covered all eventualities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 22:52:12 GMT
Some very random thoughts about 2006/2007.
Firstly, it was a strange time for me as I was in the process of making a major life decision which – like United’s relegation – had a certain inevitability about it. The two events almost ran in tandem and both reached their nadir in April. Oddly this helped to put both in context and lessen the trauma on all fronts (although the days between the Swindon and Peterborough games had something of an Otherworld experience about them).
Secondly, once Roberts arrived at the club I was determined to find out as much as I could about him. If he’d been the usual type of purchaser I might not have been so concerned but it was the way he played up his football background that made the quest so compelling. I spent hours on the web searching for him and found bugger all. Then it was Companies House and the discovery of a string of businesses and addresses around the Edinburgh area. Nothing added up in a way that suggested something was very wrong. In a way it was more sad than bad and the story about the footballing career ended by injury – Karel Poborsky nicking his place in the team and Bari opting for David Platt instead - was plain bonkers.
Thirdly, it's been great to read the recent postings about the Barnet game in 2001. But how do we now feel about the Atkins Escape and that fantastic run of games leading up to the win at Carlisle? At the time I thought those few weeks were some of my best ever as a Torquay supporter but now, sadly, it all seems something of a sick joke. That's a shame because it was bloody fantastic.
Fourthly, the what if scenarios. What if Mike Bateson and Ian Atkins had worked together longer? What if the current owners of the club had purchased in 2006 rather than 2007? Impossible to say - isn’t it? - but I’ll hazard a guess and say we might have had a solid, if unspectacular season that would have left us in the Football League in 2007/08. Beyond that who can say?
Lastly, the relegation day itself. As Jon has suggested it was something akin to the death of an elderly relative. He’s also right in saying the survival of the club was very much the main issue. I was in the North East over Easter and remember watching a gripping FA Vase semi-final at Billingham Synthonia and being distracted by texts from Plainmoor which made me feel I was in entirely the wrong place during our hour of need. And, in my book, we were relegated at Swindon as I was suffering a desperately dull goalless draw between Newcastle and Arsenal. Life then took a strange turn and I found myself staying in a cracking B&B on Avenue Road over the weekend of the generally subdued occasion of the Peterborough game. I took the day in my stride only to suffer the post-relegation aftershock of the utter numbness of going through the motions the following week at Wrexham.
Then, of course, we had Leroy and Benney Week – observed with crazed horror from the wilds of West Cornwall – followed by that amazing Sunday when City lost to Morecambe and the consortium took over at Plainmoor.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 23:24:17 GMT
Very good game it was Barton, thought the young Kingskerswell team were unlucky not to win. Yes, I thought Kingskerswell played well and they certainly had the chances to win. Perhaps Ian Bastow coming on made the difference. And looking at Darren Bastow - 27 going on 47 in looks (take off twenty years with respect to attitude) - you'd never think he was once a professional footballer. It's a great competition the Herald Cup, isn't it? There's a list of all the winners - back to the mid 1920s - at www.sdfl.org.uk/herald_cup_36.html And isn't Newton Abbot humour absolutely sublime? I was walking up Decoy Road when three of NA's finest pulled up in a car: NA lad 1: Excuse mate, where's Willow Street?Me (keeping my distance): Sorry, don't knowNA lad 2: What about St George's Road, mate?Me (backing away all the time): Er, sorry...NA lad 3: What's the time? At which point they drove off, tyres screeching. Us Torquay boys can't keep up with this edgy, urban Decoy Hoodz stuff. Perhaps Dave - or Merse - may wish to mark my card as to where Willow Street and St George's Road may - or may not be - in Newton Abbot? Mind you I do like that NAPD van - Newton Abbot Plumbing Department. Very clever.
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 7, 2009 10:29:09 GMT
And isn't Newton Abbot humour absolutely sublime? I was walking up Decoy Road when three of NA's finest pulled up in a car: NA lad 1: Excuse mate, where's Willow Street?Me (keeping my distance): Sorry, don't knowNA lad 2: What about St George's Road, mate?Me (backing away all the time): Er, sorry...NA lad 3: What's the time? At which point they drove off, tyres screeching. Us Torquay boys can't keep up with this edgy, urban Decoy Hoodz stuff. In a nutshell Bartie, they don't exist.................when I got married in 1974, we lived in a garden flat in the deprived 'hood of Decoy and it was where I went to Primary School too. I think the furthest I ever sunk into delinquency was cutting across the railway lines as a short cut home to Milber from school and surreptitiosly preparing the nicking of the ladder to the over head gantry holding the train signals by patiently undoing all the holding bolts over a period of a week or more in a vain attempt to use it as a means of access to our dreamed of tree house in the cedar trees by the Torquay Road. I know, I know; good kids like Little Dave would have been horrified and pointed out the possibilities of some poor legitimate user of the ladder taking a great fall in the interim "preparation" time , but to be honest we would have found that fecking hilarious being the little scrotes that we were! I think that somewhat lawless upbringing manifested itself when, as an adult; I used to rattle my house keys along the chain link fence of the adjoining poultry compound so that the owner thought that the fox was setting amongst his stock, such was the cacaphoney of sound at some unearthly hour as I walked home from the pub! The East End "Jago", The Bronx, Decoy.................it's a tough old upbringing you know. No wonder we're spawning a generation of singers of "The Referee's a Knut". What's going down on the mean streets of Budleigh Salterton these days Bud?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 7, 2009 10:46:58 GMT
What's going down on the mean streets of Budleigh Salterton these days Bud? It was boys like you merse who gave the rest of the Newton boys a bad name What goes on in Budleigh Salterton these days. well today you can enjoy a good game of football as the Devon under 18 side take on Budleigh Salterton in a league game. TUAFC1 has already left for the game as he is the assistant manager of the team and wearing his suit you could be forgiven thinking his team was playing at Wembley. A picture of the Devon FA team that was taken when Devon under 18's went up to play against Essex. You could also be forgiven again for thinking Ant once appeared on Eastenders as a stunt double for Grant Mitchell. ;D
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 7, 2009 11:42:13 GMT
Today in Budleigh Salterton.... I walked down the road to buy the paper where I heard two of our older generation chatting outside the Co-op and worrying that our local tea rooms 'Time for Tea' may be closing. Then another of our more senior members has just taken at least seven minutes to drive her Morris Minor the length of the High street and has astonished onlookers by only taking thirty-seven manouvers to park with all watching thanking a higher entity that there were no other cars around. The baker had a moan because someone had left their bike lent against his backwall all night having obviously forgotten about it after leaving the pub (Vic, John and Bob went a bit OTT last night apparently and had two pints each after the landlord had bought in a guest ale which was much to their liking. It is believed the bike belonged to John who I imagine felt he could leave it against the baker's wall as the baker is his brother-in-law). There's a bit of a problem in Meadow Road because the postman is 17 minutes later than normal, in fact Elsie, next door, has popped her head out of her kitchen window twice in the last eight minutes muttering and blaspheming about the 'bloody state of the service these days, it's enough to make Jesus cross'. I did hear a story in the newsagent that Fred, who lives further up the hill, is considering a complaint to the council because some youngsters walked past his window singing last night and that's now twice in the last fortnight, it has since transpired that the youngsters were the bridge club on their way back from another famous victory in the over 50's league. Bert went for his usual early morning swim but on getting dressed forgot to put his sandals back on so having worried himself sick in the aforementioned newsagents a group went down to the shoreline to retrieve them for him where upon they were last seen floating away to France. He is now giving his story to our local reporter from the Budleigh Times where it may well hit the front page next tuesday. Oh, and some prat came screaming up to me on his bike in the street last night shouting 'city, city, city' in my ear, so I knocked him flying..... That cost me a pint when we got to the pub!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 7, 2009 11:49:09 GMT
The quality of live in Devon BudleighGull, its no wonder why we will never leave to live in places where you are no more than just another face on some street.
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 7, 2009 12:10:21 GMT
............................... Bert went for his usual early morning swim but on getting dressed forgot to put his sandals back on Could have been entertaining if the forgetful old bugger had forgotten to put his trunks on! Meanwhile in cosmopolitan N7 I'm listening to potty mouthed Lily Allen's latest album "It's Not Me, It's You" with such charmingly named tracks as "f**k You" to enlighten the neighbours as I sit at the keyboard with the windows wide open to let in the balmy warmth of an early Spring day - sun in the clear blue sky and the spire of Highgate Village Church in all it's magnificence up on the Heath's edge on the horizon. Earlier I popped down the Seven Sisters for a haircut Algerian style complete with Rangers v Celtic on the wide screen courtesy (couldn't tell you which Old Firm game it was mind you as the commo was in Arabic ) and the obligatory North African coffee that will render me hyperactive for the afternoon such is the caffein content! ;D How ironic after a week of enduring freeze yer boo locks off and biblical rain lashings on the training grounds of Nawf Londahnn and Grotty Grays in pursuance of my son and my heroes, today sees him playing indoors in a tournament at one o'clock, rather than out in the fresh air No doubt when we return, the game v R&D will be underway.....................here' hoping those BBC Devon commentators get to mention the score periodically for latecomers ~ somehow I doubt they will though!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 7, 2009 12:24:16 GMT
I think the furthest I ever sunk into delinquency was cutting across the railway lines as a short cut home to Milber from school and surreptitiosly preparing the nicking of the ladder to the over head gantry holding the train signals by patiently undoing all the holding bolts over a period of a week or more in a vain attempt to use it as a means of access to our dreamed of tree house in the cedar trees by the Torquay Road.Merse Cameron and Spratty told me you lived in that park, mostly found by the old shelter that was between the main gates(now to be found as the entrance to Keyberry lake)and the padding pool, waiting and hoping that ETHEL might show up,your pockets full of your weekly pocket money, to give her in the hope of getting a frill. Cameron was part of our group who had a secret den in the heart of Newton Abbot. A lane now long gone and known as Bearne's Lane was where our den was to be found. Bearne's lane went from Bank Street and came out a few yards up from the DRUM. The drum was a meeting place for many Newton people and I was surprised to find out that many of the younger generation have not ever heard of it. Just down on the left from the old post office, Cameron and a few more of us Newton boys would scale a wall of an old derelict building. It ran all the way way down to the end of the lane. Once over the wall we were in a courtyard that had around six disused stables. Up on the first floor was our secret room, it even had an old safe in it, where we wrote out our secret papers and put them in it. You could walk along the first floor to the end, but you had to be quite as the end building on the ground floor was in use as some sort of shop I think. I do remember it had big windows, I do have a few stories I could tell about some things that we got up to in our town hideaway, but it was mostly all good fun.
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Mar 7, 2009 14:43:07 GMT
One thing that has occurred to me from the relgation to the BSP is that relegation actually didn’t feel as bad as things did whe roberts was at the club and there were some moments that made me feel very proud to be a Gulls fan. . . . . Going to the TUST meeting in the pub round the corner from the ground and the vote of no confidence being given to the roberts regime gave me hope because of the sensible and measured debate that took place and the first real signs that some concentrated efforts to rid the club of the slime that was killing it were beginning to pay-off. The words of some of the people who spoke that night (only one of whom I know personally but several are regular posters on this site and I love to read their posts on this site) were very reassuring.
Going to the English Riviera Centre was fantastic as well - I never felt that Richardson would be anything other than a 'stop gap' (but I was surprised he went so soon!!!) but it galvanised support in some ways. The amount of people turning-up to the fans' forum was magnificent - especially when the late Tony Boyce (RIP) was there as well. Despite knowing we were going-down I felt that there was a chance for a new future for the club with a whole lot more involvement of supporters one way or another.
It goes to show that there are hard times for clubs like ours - but even in those tough times there are things to make me thankful that I support this club. Maybe we wont go up this season - maybe we will, but there will be years of smiles (and tears) as long as this club keeps going. Contast that with the day of the Colchester defeat - I knew we'd go down so it was no surprise - but the train back to Devon was shared by chelsea 'supportersl from Devon - a disgrace to this fine county with their taunts to those following their local club. Do people with their broad Devon accents and chelsea shirts not really how pathetic theoir glory hunting ways appear?!
The day we win promtion back to the league will mean more than the last two promotions put together.
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