Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 3, 2009 23:08:34 GMT
Those interested in the club's financial history may like to peruse the annual accounts from 1982 Well those accounts answer the question previously asked about why Tony Boyce handed the club over to Webby. You can see that there is a “deficiency of funds” or an “excess of liabilities over assets” of £210k. The definition of an insolvent company is one whose liabilities exceed its assets. TUFC was insolvent to the tune of nearly a quarter of a million quid! That was a lot of money back in 1982. That is an extremely sick animal indeed and should have been put out of its misery. I would imagine that the directors at the time would have lost a lot of sleep over continuing trading – as they could have been found guilty of illegal trading if they had knowingly continued to flog a dead horse. The notes on Donal Murphy’s transfer explain something that had baffled me until now. Merse has said in the past that the commercial department raised the money to pay the £10k transfer fee to bring him from Coventry in 1978. Yet I could remember Webb talking about the financial mess that he inherited and saying that amongst the unpaid bills in 1984 was Murphy’s transfer fee. It would appear that what had not been paid was some or all of the extra £18,333 payable as a third share of the profit when he was sold on to Plymouth in 1980. Talking of commercial departments, I was shocked to see that income from “pools, lottery and bingo” in 1981/82 was 16% down on the previous season. Looking at the 1981/82 team and staff photo (page 225 of the Centenary History), you would have thought that the sharp-dressed young business manager (front row, far left) would have done better than that!  |
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 4, 2009 4:08:27 GMT
Talking of commercial departments, I was shocked to see that income from “pools, lottery and bingo” in 1981/82 was 16% down on the previous season. Looking at the 1981/82 team and staff photo (page 225 of the Centenary History), you would have thought that the sharp-dressed young business manager (front row, far left) would have done better than that!  The reduced income came about through having to pay overheads such as water rates (as previously mentioned) for the Lottery Kiosks and having the rival Torbay Borough Council Lottery to compete against where previously the local authority had steadfastly set their face against "such activities".................they "gave" with one hand and took with the other! It was because of this very situation that the Commercial Department responsibilities had already been divided between Alex Jackson (Polls & Lottery Mananger) and myself (Business manager) so that Alex could concentrate wholly on lottery revenue and myself on all other ancillary income....................advertising, publications, sponsorship, licensed premises and catering franchises. People like "Timbo" where absolute heroes for trekking around the neighbourhoods on a weekly basis, come rain come shine selling their lottery tickets. That's commitment for you! Another one was the late Reg Sandford, father of current club secretary Anne Sandford; who sold a massive number of tickets in Brixham and had been quite a "hard nut to crack" before he could be persuaded to do this on behalf of the club................once committed though, he proved to be a fastidious and hugely reliable representative of the club and in later years he also became a very reliable and trustworthy member of the match day team. Whenever I see Annie, I think of him all those years ago. Our very own "Gateman" ( Andy Fiderkiewicz) is another long term and wholly reliable match day worker up at ~Plainmoor and I often wonder just how much football guys like him must have missed seeing as they conscienciously continue to hold the gate open for latecomers and then go to cash up before half time if they are lucky..........................he must have "missed" nigh on twenty years worth of football in that time. No wonder you only know "half the story" then Fiddles! ;D |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 4, 2009 16:42:15 GMT
Trying to take in all the details on this thread has led me to ask a few questions and also a request to Barton Downs. It is clear that the club was £273,000. in debt at the end on 1982 and the club was then sold to Webb. Now I know and understand why Roberts took over TUFC, not because he wanted to take our club forward, but needed the club so he could hopefully get his hotel, come shopping complex. If what Roberts had dreamed, would have really been beneficial to our club, then the whole Bay really would have seen much needed improvements in all our sports facilities. It was only a dream and as we know never happened, but at least you could understand just why Roberts took over the club.
What I don't know or understand is why Webb took over a club that was so much in debt, what was his plan and what were is real aims etc, if he did not have any then was it just about owning a football club? We all know how it all ended and those days are seem as very dark days in our clubs history.One name I do know on the accounts is the former director L.W. Leppington, as you would expect I was once his milkman ;D
I got to talk with a lot during the Webb days and I remember after Webb was got rid of from our club, Mr Leppington explained how he and others had to give their shares away for nothing, just so control of TUFC could be taken back from Webb. So a balance sheet from the last season Webb was in control, might be good reading, so thats over to you Barton.
But I would if possible be interested to see the balance sheet when Bateson took over, one from his middle years and the final one before he handed the club to Roberts.
When Bateson arrived I and I think most fans believed he saved our club and that without him coming in, TUFC would have just gone under. Bateson has and at times for good reason, often been blamed for many things that happened at TUFC, but one thing I do believe is, he ran the club within its means.
Yes cut backs were often made by Bateson and he got rid of our reserve side and our youth setup, he was not prepared to fund such things from his own pocket and to maintain a first team and a ground to play in and not let the club get in debt, something things just had to go.While his tone and remarks about the club being only a small town club and even his talk about it going part time, were not welcome and did nothing to encourage fans to be a part of the club,he did not let the club run into debt.
So Barton If you have all the balance sheets could you post them, or maybe just the important figures on them and maybe they will show that while Bateson had many faults, he may well have run the club better than we gave him credit for. Anyone can spend more than they earn and its my view that those who do so, only end up in tears, unless our board are prepared to put more money in over the years, or greatly increase the clubs income, then even they may be forced to look at making cuts to try and keep the books balanced.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 20:54:35 GMT
Dave, unfortunately I no longer have those accounts but I will post information from the 1990 share prospectus which contains figures for 1986-1990. I'll also order some stuff from Companies House for 2006 and 2007 and post anything worthwhile. Each document only costs £1 from Companies House. I've tried to post three links in this message for each of the key companies in the recent story but each time the same link is being triplicated. I'll do it the long way in three postings. Go to each link and click "order information on this company" to get a list of the available documents. The list itself tells part of the story. This is for Torquay United AFC (as we know and love it) and enables accounts to be ordered from 1994 onwards: wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/3f597fbb0410d53f3fe0d5985c4bfbe6/compdetails |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 21:09:07 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 21:15:54 GMT
Here is the Companies House link for Torquay United Holdings, the infamous Roberts company. This contains the really fascinating material and is how I discovered the Mick Sadler connection before posting it on the Mervo site. It was the reference to "particulars of a mortgage/charge" that caught the eye. Remember to click the "order information" link to see more: wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/84a4f9f7bb9ef297bae717a4daf51d23/compdetails |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 21:46:18 GMT
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 4, 2009 21:55:47 GMT
Thanks Barton, I'll have a good long look at it and see what sense I can make of it, sure some on here will be able to explain the important points that will be interesting.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Feb 4, 2009 21:57:31 GMT
Jon, Translation please?  |
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Post by stuartB on Feb 4, 2009 22:14:46 GMT
Jon, Translation please? the answer is 42 |
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 5, 2009 3:40:31 GMT
It's "not available" until 7am...................I would have thought this was the ideal site for insomniacs - typical bloody pen pushers! 
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