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Post by plainmoorpete on Oct 22, 2023 10:19:00 GMT
I keep seeing people say that you would need to raise £5m to buy the current owner out before looking to fund the future. No you wouldn’t. Historically, owners have walked away from losses incurred on their watch. You pay the piper and call the tune, but you cannot expect to call the tune and expect someone else to pick up the tab. The other misconception is the sunk cost fallacy. I have read that selling the club for a pound would bring about a £5m loss, so nobody would ever consider doing that. Wrong. The £5m is already lost. Only costs and income from now come into any decision to stick or twist. Thanks for posting this. With regards to Osborne's £5m I always thought this was the case, as far as he is concerned that money is gone. It would be the equivalent of me selling my car and expecting the buyer to reimburse me for all the petrol money I had spent on running it. If such a scenario occurs and Osborne decided to bail out with no likelihood of a private buyer then it would only be through spite that he doesn't offer TUST the chance to buy it for the proverbial £1. |
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bobgull
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Post by bobgull on Oct 22, 2023 14:48:23 GMT
Thank you Bobgull for at last providing a potential theory that could explain what Osbourne is up to. The Spires swapping playing fields with Plainmoor. It may be a bit tenuous but it is a possibility. I have tried to work out what he is up to but to no avail even though I am involved with the planning system. It is a great shame the owners are so uncommunicative with the hoi polloi, it allows rumours and negativity to circulate. An announcement on their plans is needed but I am not holding my breath. In fact any update on injuries, loanees, etc would be welcome as per normal professional football clubs. It is disrespectful to the customers. I agree completely with your view on the lack of communication Sam. The information vacuum on the club’s future creates speculation and suspicion. Also, has it ever been announced that the food concession under the Pop Side now takes card payments? I may have missed it but it doesn’t seem to be widely known. Wouldn’t communicating this benefit both the concession and fans? |
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petef
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Post by petef on Oct 22, 2023 16:30:39 GMT
Thank you Bobgull for at last providing a potential theory that could explain what Osbourne is up to. The Spires swapping playing fields with Plainmoor. It may be a bit tenuous but it is a possibility. I have tried to work out what he is up to but to no avail even though I am involved with the planning system. It is a great shame the owners are so uncommunicative with the hoi polloi, it allows rumours and negativity to circulate. An announcement on their plans is needed but I am not holding my breath. In fact any update on injuries, loanees, etc would be welcome as per normal professional football clubs. It is disrespectful to the customers. I agree completely with your view on the lack of communication Sam. The information vacuum on the club’s future creates speculation and suspicion. Also, has it ever been announced that the food concession under the Pop Side now takes card payments? I may have missed it but it doesn’t seem to be widely known. Wouldn’t communicating this benefit both the concession and fans? I bet they do take cards now, they have to the price of some pretty poor offerings is a disgrace. Next up you will have to pay on line for your chips the day before the match! How much now for a portion of dreadful "pot luck " chips is it now? I refuse to be ripped off either by the owners or the bloody caterers any more. All round there is no respect for supporters and with Johnsons comments last week when he talked about the "right sort of supporter" that demonstrates to me what they really think and we are no more than a necessary evil. Bobgull land swap theory does make a lot of sense and could definitely hold water. Up until recently the owners have had a very easy ride. More of us are beginning to understand their isolation tactics. Its all about control. I feel its so important to continue to keep probing and stirring the pot. Its clear as can be the last thing they want is to be communicating with the fan base or be asked searching questions so when the time comes we are at least prepared for anything. |
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bobgull
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Post by bobgull on Oct 22, 2023 17:00:19 GMT
👍🏻Yes, the TUST open fans forum at the Livermead Cliff Hotel on Wed 8th Nov (bar open from 6.30, meeting at 7.00) should be interesting.
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Post by bomber on Oct 23, 2023 9:00:24 GMT
If that hits a dead end, they are left with liquidate or write off debt and sell for £1.
I am sure they would not care about anyone’s feelings if liquidation gave them the least bad result.
But I am not sure it would. They would get very little return through liquidation and would get a lot of flak for killing a football club. I am sure they are hard-nosed enough to take the flak, but the reputational damage could actually hinder any future projects.
So as Sherlock Holmes would say, the unlikely outcome of selling for £1 might end up being the least unlikely solution.
But we will have to wait and see.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.[/quote]
Selling might well include receiving 20% for all future transfer revenues for the next five years as well.
The likelihood is that it could certainly get to the point when the only choices open to CO could be to take a chance and get a small amount back or lose all of his investment.
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Post by plainmoorpete on Oct 23, 2023 19:03:53 GMT
Selling might well include receiving 20% for all future transfer revenues for the next five years as well. Given our recent record in the transfer market that's not going to cost us much is it. |
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hector
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Post by hector on Oct 25, 2023 18:06:32 GMT
In terms of Plainmoor, if Torbay Council own the ground, do they own the actual buildings on the site?
Should the club be liquidated, I guess I’ve sort of assumed that a phoenix club could just start playing at Plainmoor but would that be the case if the stands/offices etc belong to the club as otherwise, I’ve wondered why the club would have ever paid for new stands to be built if they didn’t own them. It would be like someone paying for an extension to be built on the back of a house they only rent, so what is the situation with TUFC and ownership of the buildings? I suspect this has been covered before but I can’t remember the answer.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Oct 25, 2023 22:02:06 GMT
In terms of Plainmoor, if Torbay Council own the ground, do they own the actual buildings on the site? Should the club be liquidated, I guess I’ve sort of assumed that a phoenix club could just start playing at Plainmoor but would that be the case if the stands/offices etc belong to the club as otherwise, I’ve wondered why the club would have ever paid for new stands to be built if they didn’t own them. It would be like someone paying for an extension to be built on the back of a house they only rent, so what is the situation with TUFC and ownership of the buildings? I suspect this has been covered before but I can’t remember the answer. The Torquay United Association Football Club Limited owns the buildings sat on land that it leases from Torbay Council. The lease expires in 2081. TUFC pays a fairly small rent as it is not renting a stadium as such, it is renting a field. If the company were liquidated, the insolvency practioner would dispose of the company assets. The buildings would be of very little value without the land they sit on. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Oct 25, 2023 22:15:54 GMT
Selling might well include receiving 20% for all future transfer revenues for the next five years as well. Windfall clauses in such cases are not uncommon. If Clarke Osborne has funded the wages of Dylan Crowe, Ryan Hanson and Brett McGavin, it would seem fair that he gets a slice of the action when they are sold on to Real Madrid for £10m each. Whereas the incoming owners could not justify funding past losses, windfalls would, by definition, be unbudgeted income - so no need to build a cost into a business plan. Thea Bristow wrote off all the money lost on her watch and also wrote off all the money she lent the club to build the new grandstand. She did have a windfall clause in the £1 sale, but ended up waiving this right as she realised that the Dean Edwards ego trip was so ridiculously underfunded. |
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Oct 26, 2023 6:56:06 GMT
In terms of Plainmoor, if Torbay Council own the ground, do they own the actual buildings on the site? Should the club be liquidated, I guess I’ve sort of assumed that a phoenix club could just start playing at Plainmoor but would that be the case if the stands/offices etc belong to the club as otherwise, I’ve wondered why the club would have ever paid for new stands to be built if they didn’t own them. It would be like someone paying for an extension to be built on the back of a house they only rent, so what is the situation with TUFC and ownership of the buildings? I suspect this has been covered before but I can’t remember the answer. The Torquay United Association Football Club Limited owns the buildings sat on land that it leases from Torbay Council. The lease expires in 2081. TUFC pays a fairly small rent as it is not renting a stadium as such, it is renting a field. If the company were liquidated, the insolvency practioner would dispose of the company assets. The buildings would be of very little value without the land they sit on. Yes, that is right. The buildings are in effect, tenant improvements for which the tenant does not pay rent on as otherwise they would be paying for it twice. The tenant in this case has a security of a long lease which could be extended. An interesting point in respect of a Phoenix club is those buildings would no longer be that tenant’s improvements unless the lease was assigned. (Taken over) |
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