Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 2, 2018 23:46:00 GMT
And, by the same token, if anyone thinks that ‘enabling development’ would add profit for TUFC, they probably need their head read, right? It would be interesting to see the details behind the proposal - but there aren't any! |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 2, 2018 23:47:52 GMT
And, by the same token, if anyone thinks that ‘enabling development’ would add profit for TUFC, they probably need their head read, right? It would be interesting to see the details behind the proposal - but there aren't any! He usually gets around to putting something seemingly tangible out eventually. After all, it’s getting built by 2020. |
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Post by plainmoorpete on Sept 4, 2018 4:20:37 GMT
it would be almost impossible to sell on because it is still haemorrhaging money You don't sell a loss-making football club, you give it away. Thea gave it away to Phillips, Balson and co. Unfortunately, they decided to hawk a promise of the freehold around property developers to try to turn something they bought for £1 into something they could sell for "the price of a detached house". As I said at the time, Dave Phillips signed the club's death warrant. The good news is that the council has kept hold of the freehold. It will be the end of Torquay United AFC Limited (the limited company formed in 1921) - unless Osborne is realistic about walking away from his losses. It won't be the end of Torquay United in some form or other. I don't dispute what you say, but I'm interested to know if you think there was an alternative to Philips, Balson et al (whom I presume were all that was left of the Dean Edwards consortium). If there was no alternative to their taking over the club, given that Thea Bristow wouldn't turn it over to TUST, then surely the club was on death row from the moment Thea Bristow relinquished it. |
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Sept 4, 2018 6:21:47 GMT
If there was no alternative to their taking over the club, given that Thea Bristow wouldn't turn it over to TUST, then surely the club was on death row from the moment Thea Bristow relinquished it. You are going to get a lot of opinions on that question and of course the club was in decline before then but not in imminent danger of going to the wall. Some double standards were going on in that TUST would not be considered unless they had £1 million of funds. The Philips consortium only had £300,000 of funds and this rapidly reduced as that body quickly broke up as differences arose between the parties involved. Of course they could have then worked with TUST but chose to borrow money from elsewhere instead as they could only see TUST taking us into the conference south. That was the critical point for me. |
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Post by plainmoorpete on Sept 4, 2018 11:06:07 GMT
If there was no alternative to their taking over the club, given that Thea Bristow wouldn't turn it over to TUST, then surely the club was on death row from the moment Thea Bristow relinquished it. You are going to get a lot of opinions on that question and of course the club was in decline before then but not in imminent danger of going to the wall. Some double standards were going on in that TUST would not be considered unless they had £1 million of funds. The Philips consortium only had £300,000 of funds and this rapidly reduced as that body quickly broke up as differences arose between the parties involved. Of course they could have then worked with TUST but chose to borrow money from elsewhere instead as they could only see TUST taking us into the conference south. That was the critical point for me. And ironically that's where we ended up. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 23:35:16 GMT
If you subscribe to Alan the arsehole's propaganda machine and believe what you read on his cronies websitethen you would blame Thea, if you are a free thinker then you might easily be of the opinion that it was uncle Mike's fault for selling when he did. You could go back to Webb and blame him, I think if the truth be told we are all to blame one way or another because non of us except maybe Paul Reading had given and or done all they can to help.
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Post by stefano on Sept 5, 2018 10:10:23 GMT
If you subscribe to Alan the arsehole's propaganda machine and believe what you read on his cronies websitethen you would blame Thea, if you are a free thinker then you might easily be of the opinion that it was uncle Mike's fault for selling when he did. You could go back to Webb and blame him, I think if the truth be told we are all to blame one way or another because non of us except maybe Paul Reading had given and or done all they can to help. I wouldn't say it is his cronies website as there are over 800 members and I don't think he has that many cronies. Indeed many posters on there regularly challenge his views which leads to some interesting debate.  I use all 3 forums and will continue to do so while they all exist, and use the same user name on all so there is no confusion. They are all different in style which in itself makes it interesting and now that not only the national media but the local media seem to have given up on our club it is a great way to get club news. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 5, 2018 12:12:23 GMT
Totally agree, stefano. I’ve long been an all 3’er, myself.
Given that Osborne is on record as saying we will stay at Plainmoor until the replacement is ready to move into, then there doesn’t need to be a discussion, as there now is, with this Torbay Development Agency ‘Plainmoor Future’ briefing. Delay such briefings until there is an alternative site built and ready to move into. Did have 60 plus years left to run on the lease.
Or should I say, there wouldn’t need to be such a briefing, if things were as the Herald reports and Osborne states. And yes, I understand what developers say and do. And also that Councils may contemplate ‘fire sales’ to developers. Not sure the Herald gets it, though. Certainly doesn’t choose to report as if it does.
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Post by plainmoorpete on Sept 5, 2018 13:30:12 GMT
Personally I think TUFC was doomed the moment Mike Bateson decided he didn't want to own a football club anymore, and I'm not laying the blame at his door either because he had a perfect right to sell up. The problem was that after Bateson there was no credible would be owner then and now.
The Roberts debacle hurt us because it was directly responsible for relegation from the league, the Bristow money was a massive missed opportunity largely because no one had the imagination to advise the Bristow's in how the money could have been invested in the club for its long term good. Instead lazy governance and short term gain were the order of the day, which lead us to the Dean Edwards fiasco and on to the acquisition of the club by Clarke Osbourne.
I can understand Alan Merson's criticism of Thea Bristow but in reality I think she found herself in a position that was not of her own choosing, ie left in charge of her husband's pet project after he died. All that is by the by now and I think the outlook for Torquay United plc (1921) is bleak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 20:09:27 GMT
If you subscribe to Alan the arsehole's propaganda machine and believe what you read on his cronies websitethen you would blame Thea, if you are a free thinker then you might easily be of the opinion that it was uncle Mike's fault for selling when he did. You could go back to Webb and blame him, I think if the truth be told we are all to blame one way or another because non of us except maybe Paul Reading had given and or done all they can to help. I wouldn't say it is his cronies website as there are over 800 members and I don't think he has that many cronies. Indeed many posters on there regularly challenge his views which leads to some interesting debate. I use all 3 forums and will continue to do so while they all exist, and use the same user name on all so there is no confusion. They are all different in style which in itself makes it interesting and now that not only the national media but the local media seem to have given up on our club it is a great way to get club news. Goodness me Stefano, are you on some sort of commission or something? You constantly defend that site, when anyone with a modicum of sense knows what it is! It's a spot on speakers corner, for one of the most saddest individuals that live on this planet! 'Views which lead to some interesting debate!' There is no interesting debate on that site...if you disagree with Merse, him and 'The Sycophantic Three' descend upon you like a bunch of Harpies! 800 members...my pricks a Bloater! How many actually post on there...8? Please don't become the 'Fourth Sycophant' Stefano! |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 5, 2018 21:21:30 GMT
I don't dispute what you say, but I'm interested to know if you think there was an alternative to Philips, Balson et al (whom I presume were all that was left of the Dean Edwards consortium). If there was no alternative to their taking over the club, given that Thea Bristow wouldn't turn it over to TUST, then surely the club was on death row from the moment Thea Bristow relinquished it. I don't think Thea was necessarily against handing over to community ownership, but she was badly advised and made to believe that there were better options available. There weren't. Lottery winner Les Scadding left Newport County in a worse state than Thea left Torquay United in. Newport followed a more sensible path. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 5, 2018 21:26:45 GMT
It's telling that no-one on here is even touting us for the play-offs, let alone automatic promotion this season. The squad we have is more than capable of finishing in the top seven! A play-off place is the objective for the manager for this season. Failure to deliver that would see him sacked. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 5, 2018 21:51:18 GMT
I can understand Alan Merson's criticism of Thea Bristow The personal abuse of Thea has been disgusting and extremely unhelpful. Thea never claimed to be a business guru. She left the club debt free and with a spanking new stand all paid for. Any mistakes she may have made, she has paid for herself. Without her and Paul, we would not have had all those memories created under Buckle and Ling. It was not her responsibility to run the club after she had left. Borrowing money from property developers is never a good idea. They don't lend money out of the kindness of their hearts, they do so to get hold of the assets of the distressed borrower. Borrowing money from property developers was the option that Dave Phillips decided to take. He then compounded that by holding furtive meetings with Gordon Oliver to try to obtain a freehold that he could sell on to property developers to get his money back - money he only ever lent to the club and never injected as share capital. Phillips did not willingly walk away from losses he incurred running the club in the way that Thea did. He ended up losing his money anyway, but the fact remains that he sold the club down the river in trying to avoid paying for his mistakes. If Thea is guilty of having believed that Dave Phillips would never do such a thing, I have to hold my hands up as guilty too. |
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hector
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Post by hector on Sept 5, 2018 22:18:24 GMT
It's telling that no-one on here is even touting us for the play-offs, let alone automatic promotion this season. The squad we have is more than capable of finishing in the top seven! A play-off place is the objective for the manager for this season. Failure to deliver that would should see him sacked. Amended because who could tell with this owner? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 23:29:01 GMT
Where in my post did I mention you Flo?
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I use all 3 forums and will continue to do so while they all exist, and use the same user name on all so there is no confusion. They are all different in style which in itself makes it interesting and now that not only the national media but the local media seem to have given up on our club it is a great way to get club news.