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Post by andycandy on Jan 20, 2017 6:44:36 GMT
Plainmoor - Meeting With The Council
Dear Member ...
I must start with an apology for the time taken to publish these notes.
The meeting did not conclude until approximately 6:15pm and the notes were produced the following day. It is normal practice to extend the courtesy of allowing those at the meeting a chance to preview and comment on notes before circulation, which has caused a delay in publication.
Please find the notes below.
Kind Regards...
Michael...
TUST meeting with Torbay Council – 17th January 2017
The meeting was arranged with key Council officers (Kevin Mowat, Liam Montgomery, and Samantha Goodwin) to enable TUST (Michael Goulbourne, Robin Causley and Alan Robinson) to explain potential concerns about the future of Torquay United and to understand the Council’s intentions for Plainmoor, given the current level of speculation.
Key points from the meeting
The Council has not met GI since the takeover and has not received any specific proposals about either Plainmoor or other potential relocation sites. The Council has met previous club owners and other third parties (including GI earlier last year). Most have suggested that acquiring the freehold of Plainmoor would be key to securing future investment in the club and there had also been general discussions about relocating the club. In both cases the discussions had been very general and the Council explained it would only wish to deal with the actual owners of the club as their tenants.
The Council has no plans to sell the freehold of Plainmoor to raise money, but in principle would be prepared to sell to the club, if a compelling case was submitted which was in the best interests of the community and the club.
If the freehold was sold the Council would wish to impose a range of ‘controls’ over the site designed to ensure that Plainmoor remained as a home to Torquay United (but enabling an appropriate replacement home to be provided if an acceptable proposal came forward).
TUST remains very concerned that under the Council’s constitution the decision to sell is solely the Mayor’s, provided the market value for Plainmoor is offered (if the offer is less than market value than the proposal must be considered by a group of Councillors). However Council officers anticipate that the Mayor is likely to forgo his sole decision making powers to enable a committee to make the decision at a public meeting, in view of the level of public interest and the importance to the area of maintaining a successful senior tier club.
Any future plans to relocate the club to another site will be subject to public consultation.
The meeting was helpful if inconclusive. TUST took some confidence that the Council appears to understand supporters concerns, wishes to retain the club and does not see selling Plainmoor as simply a money making opportunity.
Action
Council officers to advise key councillors of the meeting with TUST and the points raised
TUST to monitor the Council’s list of key decisions to check when and if a report is published in due course about the future of Plainmoor. If proposals emerge that do not appear to be in the best in the interests of the club then TUST will call on members to make their feelings known to the Council before a decision is made
TUST to consider how to persuade the Mayor to ensure any potential future decision on Plainmoor is made in a public meeting with an opportunity for key stakeholders to offer their views prior to a decision being made.
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 20, 2017 11:23:46 GMT
Thanks for posting that Andy. That is encouraging in that proper consideration and safeguarding is being undertaken. If there are workable proposals submitted then it is something that we can all support but presently everything is all in the air.
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 21, 2017 19:10:54 GMT
Notes on meeting between TUST and representatives of GI :
Meeting With New Owners
Dear Members ,,
An informal meeting was arranged between Chris Rich(CR) and Tim Herbert (TH) from TUFC with TUST representatives (Ali Bryant, Robin Causley, Matt Gorman and Alan Robinson), primarily to begin to build a relationship, but also to gain a better understanding of the respective positions of both ‘sides’.
Although an initial list of questions were forwarded to the club for a response (as detailed in the note to members on 16th January) to be used as an agenda, it was subsequently agreed to adopt a more informal approach on the basis GI were not specifically in a position to answer all questions that had been compiled at this early stage. TUST understood the stance taken by GI but still took the opportunity to engage in order to build a greater understanding of the current position and plans moving forward where possible.
Key points from the meeting
TUST were advised of GI’s initial actions, some of which are also summarised in the Club press release, which was issued at a similar time as the meeting.
Key starting principles for GI are consolidation; sustainability; and planning for the club’s promotion. Promotion is not seen as a short term target and CR insisted that GI have the long term interest of the club at heart and feels there is great deal of misinformation circulating about the company.
GI’s core business is the management and improvement of stadia and they are currently focussed on (non-football) projects in Swindon, Poole and Milton Keynes. GI believe they have expertise that they can bring to secure the long term financial sustainability of the Club.
GI are keen to acquire the freehold of Plainmoor but suggested that its ownership was not essential. However CR anticipates that negotiations with the Council about the sale will begin very shortly. TUST stressed the sensitivity of this issue in advance of GI publishing their longer term plans.
GI do not anticipate being involved locally at a significant level and explained that they are keen to establish a locally community based board to manage the club. Appointments to the board will be based on skill sets and there is not a requirement for capital investment from appointees.
TUST is seen as a portal to a significant part of the fan base, however GI are committed to greater communication with all stakeholders. Fans forums and/or fans workshops will be part of the communication process with the first meeting anticipated to be in early February and then at subsequent regular intervals. Their aim is to have sessions that entertain and inform.
CR described the ‘back room’ organisational structure to date and the three recent staff appointments.
CR acknowledged the need to use Plainmoor more frequently than on match days, rebuild relationships with the business and wider community and encouraging more young people to attend games. TH explained that there is an intention to improve the match day experience.
CR indicated that while GI expect to have a long term interest in the club, he stressed that GI have a business model and if they can’t make it work from a financial perspective then they will move on. While CR sees pros and cons of community ownership, both sides agreed that in the current circumstances it was likely to be a solution of last resort.
TUST remains cautious about the future but welcomed the opportunity for a discussion which appeared open and productive. Many of the comments made by both CR and TH were positive and if implemented, TUST representatives believe will be supported by many fans. An example is the re-establishment of the youth academy.
The key issue which remains a concern for TUST is the timing of GI’s bid to acquire the freehold of the ground from the Council. TUST explained that it was not against such a sale as a principle, provided there was a clear business case for the site’s disposal at that particular point in time; it is demonstrably in the long term interests of the club; and there are sufficient controls in place to ensure it remains in use as a stadium for senior level football, at least until there is an appropriate replacement stadium.
Action
TUST to engage with GI when appropriate and act as an independent ‘critical friend’ and possible focus group.
TUST to monitor any potential future decision about Plainmoor and advise TUST members of whether TUST believes any proposal can be supported or should be opposed.
Kind Regards ...
Michael
Copyright © 2017 Torquay United Supporters Trust, All rights reserved.
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 24, 2017 20:57:27 GMT
Latest email from TUST is that the lease for Plainmoor is now going to be discussed on 29th March.
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Post by Jon on Jan 25, 2017 0:16:56 GMT
Latest email from TUST is that the lease for Plainmoor is now going to be discussed on 29th March.
Dear all just to update you that the above will not be considered at the meeting of the Policy Development and Decision Group (Joint Operations Team) on 6 February 2017 as the Council is not yet in a position to make a decision on this matter. It is now scheduled for the meeting on 29 March 2017. This has been reflected in the Council’s Forward Plan.The lease does not expire until 31 January 2081. Sixty-four years to run. What "decision" does the council have to make? is there already a specific proposal on the table to alter the terms of the lease? |
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Post by rjdgull on Jan 25, 2017 9:40:26 GMT
Only partial and sometimes contradictory information on this matter out there, with a few red herrings thrown in for good measure. On this hinges the fate of our club.  |
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Post by rjdgull on Mar 8, 2017 23:50:49 GMT
E-mail from TUST today about the 15th March council meeting with discussions about the Plainmoor lease. Unfortunately it seems that the agenda ( link ) has an item whereby the press and public are excluded from the final two items which are the leases on the Torbay and Countryside trust as well as Plainmoor, not sure if the two are linked in anyway? Plainmoor Lease Dear member ... Please find below the current published agenda of he Overview and Scrutiny Board meeting scheduled for March 15th at which the disposal of the Plainmoor Lease will be discussed. You will note from the agenda that this is a verbal report and to our knowledge no detailed report has yet been published. Riviera Stadium Limited have made no secret of the fact that they wish to build a new event stadium but until they publish their plans and explain their reasons for needing to own the freehold of Plainmoor before a new stadium is built we have no choice but to challenge any decision to dispose of the Plainmoor lease. I would like to take this opportunity to ask Riviera Stadium Limited to start the promised consultation process with all stakeholders at the earliest opportunity. Below are the email addresses of the members of the Overview and Scrutiny Board if you wish to contact them before the meeting. chris.lewis@torbay.gov.uk jane.barnby@torbay.gov.uk neil.bent@torbay.gov.uk nick.bye@torbay.gov.uk jackie.stockman@torbay.gov.uk cindy.stocks@torbay.gov.uk anna.tolchard@torbay.gov.uk alan.tyerman@torbay.gov.uk ian.doggett@torbay.gov.uk penny.burnside@exeter.anglican.org Kind Regards ... Michael |
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Post by Rob on Mar 9, 2017 19:31:36 GMT
Back in December/January, GI were keen to talk 5 year plans, forums and consultation during the remaining months of the season. There was even a false dawn when they said they would announce the plan on 20th January, but with the season ending next month it is clear from the above where they were instead focussing their TUFC related effort during that period. At least they realised by Monday of this week that Blissett had gone. Bigger fish to fry in January and since, it seems.
Freehold before they build anything? Something they didn't even get with existing stadia at Poole, Swindon and Reading. What could possibly go wrong?
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Post by Rob on Mar 24, 2017 22:49:08 GMT
Thought I'd pop this on here having seen it on another site. Plainmoor
Dear Member,It has now been over 14 weeks since our Club was sold to Gaming International yet despite many promises to engage and involve supporters during this very difficult period in the Club's history, nothing has been forthcoming.
I will not list all of the things we were told, but notably:
There would be meetings with fans and other stakeholders to engage in discussions about a 5 year business plan.
There would be a Fans Forum within weeks of GI taking over.
Local people would be invited to join the Board.
Funds would be made available to the Manager to strengthen the team.
The match day experience at Plainmoor would be improved to attract and retain supporters.
GI have not delivered against any of these promises and therefore it is not surprising that the Club continues in a downward spiral both on and off the playing surface.
From the outset there have been genuine fears about GI's real interests in purchasing the freehold of Plainmoor, and many fans will be aware that GI have held discussions in private with Torbay Council on this subject. TUST and many individual supporters have raised their concerns with local councillors and there is now a growing army of resistance against the Council selling the freehold to GI without adequate safeguards built into any agreement that will protect the long term interests of Torquay United.
The mayor will be making a public decision about the disposal of the Plainmoor freehold at a meeting planned for the 26th April.
Our current precarious league position coupled with the failure this week to strengthen the team to help the fight against relegation only serves to reinforce the view that GI are indifferent to the club’s predicament and instead are only interested in the land the club has played on for over 100 years. Clarke Osborne and Chris Rich have failed to honour promises made to TUST and the absence of any information or actions to contradict and dispel some of these fears is cause for concern, worry and anger about the way in which the Club is being run.
The importance of the meeting on the 26th April cannot be emphasised enough as the outcome will go a long way in determining whether the freehold of Plainmoor is to be sold to GI or not. Whatever the decision we should have a clearer picture as to whether GI are in it for the long haul or whether they might walk away. TUST cannot predict the outcome of that meeting but is working hard to identify possible ways to protect the future of the Club if the nightmare scenario is realised.
If we are to believe that the existing covenants and proposed additional restrictive conditions will safeguard Plainmoor from the developers then we must ask the question why are GI so fixated on owning the freehold of a piece of land that seemingly has no commercial value?
Mr Osborne, you do not need to own Plainmoor. If you genuinely want to build a new stadium then build it first.
Whilst some supporters will be comforted by the sound bites emanating from Plainmoor the reality is we are potentially facing our darkest hour both on and off the pitch.
The nightmare scenario is the club going into administration, but as long as Plainmoor is secured by public ownership we will always have a home for a professional football club.
Supporters need to be concerned.
Please click on the following link and see what happens when the developers takeover.
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39354998
If you are concerned about the future of your club I urge ALL supporters to make their feelings know to their local councillor. You can contact your local councillor by following the link below;
www.torbay.gov.uk/DemocraticServ ... aspx?bcr=1
Kind Regards ...
Michael |
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Post by rjdgull on Apr 10, 2017 11:17:41 GMT
Latest communication from TUST:
Dear Member,
The Asset of Community Value (ACV) was put in place to give supporters transparency and influence over the future of our home, exactly the circumstance we now find ourselves in today.
As the original author of the ACV, supported by Supporters Direct, I made particular effort to ensure the land known as Plainmoor was protected. This involved specific reference to the Land Registry and aerial photographs outlining the land area being registered.
It was a mixture of surprise and disappointment to first discover the Mayor’s plan to make a decision on the disposal of the freehold after an entry was put into the council’s Forward Plan and NOT through any formal communication with TUST, the local ACV nominating group.
That disappointment turned to disbelief when, after concerted lobbying by TUST, we met with Torbay Council officers who informed us that following legal advice they had concluded that the ACV had been registered against the LEASE and not the Freehold, effectively making the ACV redundant and freeing the council from its obligations under the legislation.
To date I have not received any formal notice of this interpretation and I have not received any evidence to justify the council’s position regarding the ACV.
The absence of unlimited access to publicly funded legal advice has meant clarification of the validity of the council’s position in relation to the ACV has taken longer than I would have wanted, but the advice I have received vindicates the original ACV and questions the council’s interpretation.
Following on from that advice I have now contacted the Department of Communities and Local Government to establish the status of the ACV that could result in a challenge if it can be proven that the council have not acted within the confines of the legislation.
Regardless of the stance taken by Torbay Council, TUST have continued to lobby hard to make sure that the concerns of supporters are understood by all, and I take this opportunity to thank all the supporters who have actively campaigned against any decision to dispose of the freehold without proper consultation.
As things currently stand there has been NO consultation and NO formal approach by the club owners to Torbay Council to request a decision of disposal of the freehold.
The absence of any proof of the argument that ownership of the freehold is “fundamental” to ongoing investment in the club puts me in mind of the small print of any mortgage or secured loan … your home is at risk if you don’t keep up the payments!
Kind Regard ...
Michael ...
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Post by rjdgull on Apr 10, 2017 11:25:10 GMT
Looks like some reinterpretation of the ACV has been going on to cover previous talks without due procedure. Ironically all talk by the council has been about the lease when it is anything but....
Some really rather dubious advice going on it seems...
Edit: The ACV refers to Plainmoor Stadium only. If freehold is sold the lease will be terminated....
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Post by rjdgull on Apr 11, 2017 22:53:43 GMT
I see from elsewhere that the Overview and Scrutiny Commitee which resolved at its 15/3/17 meeting for the Mayor to present a full report regarding the "Plainmoor Lease" on 19/4/17 before the Mayor makes his decision at the meeting a week later has been cancelled although the latter meeting is still scheduled. Details of minutes and agenda for the overview commitee can be found HEREAs we know agendas are released a week in advance so probably what needed to be discussed is either not ready, cancelled or censored? If no announcements are forthcboming then keep an eye out for the agenda of the Policy Development Committee due next Wednesday 19/4/17. Edit - hopefully the good work by Michael as highlighted in his email is starting to have an impact as the local authority appears to be on very shaky ground. |
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Post by rjdgull on Apr 12, 2017 15:00:24 GMT
I see from elsewhere that the Overview and Scrutiny Commitee which resolved at its 15/3/17 meeting for the Mayor to present a full report regarding the "Plainmoor Lease" on 19/4/17 before the Mayor makes his decision at the meeting a week later has been cancelled although the latter meeting is still scheduled. Details of minutes and agenda for the overview commitee can be found HEREAs we know agendas are released a week in advance so probably what needed to be discussed is either not ready, cancelled or censored? If no announcements are forthcboming then keep an eye out for the agenda of the Policy Development Committee due next Wednesday 19/4/17. Edit - hopefully the good work by Michael as highlighted in his email is starting to have an impact as the local authority appears to be on very shaky ground. Decision delayed for another 3 months and is now due by the Mayor on 24 July 2017! link Looks like the cancellation is due to various concerns on the ground that still need to be addressed! |
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Post by rjdgull on Apr 12, 2017 15:43:16 GMT
Herald now reporting on these developments - linkApparently CO has given an "absolute guarantee" that a new stadium will be built first? Anyone else see that? |
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Post by Rob on Apr 12, 2017 16:17:41 GMT
Herald now reporting on these developments - linkApparently CO has given an "absolute guarantee" that a new stadium will be built first? Anyone else see that? Osborne's absolute guarantee. Is that on the basis of that last interview. That's that sorted, then. Has he made any promises regarding stadia before, HE author? Sort it out, HE and do your job. |
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