simonb
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Post by simonb on Nov 21, 2015 19:42:38 GMT
Wish I could share your (slight) optimism but I think the gates will close on the club soon - in essence there is nothing left really. Hope I'm proved wrong but just cannot see where that extra spark is going to come from.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 23:18:53 GMT
Wish I could share your (slight) optimism but I think the gates will close on the club soon - in essence there is nothing left really. Hope I'm proved wrong but just cannot see where that extra spark is going to come from. It ain't over till it's over. Lived by that mantra all through my army career and carried it on as a civvy. We still have a team, a manager, a ground, fans, and enough games to turn it around. Optimism is king! Pessimism wins fcuk all.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Nov 22, 2015 6:04:58 GMT
So a first start for Ben Gerring today with Shepherd on the right wing and a Campion / Briscoe combo upfront. We started ok with Butler beating his marker on one attack to make a foray into the area and a little after Shepherd did some good work to get the ball across the area to an unmarked Butler but he horribly screwed his shot wide when maybe he could have taken a quick touch first? That was about as good as it got in the first half. We did try to counter attack from a Lincoln corner but their player cynically pulled our player back and was lucky to,escape with just a dressing down. Their next corner was nicely delivered hard and flat to the edge of our six yard box for them to head unimpeded home and almost had a training ground feel to it. Their second came from their striker playing off the last defender to slot home past an advancing Lavercombe. It was all one way traffic thereafter. However there was a nasty 50/50 ball where their number 8 and Gerring managed to take each other out and the crowd wanted to see a red card but the ref gave a dangerous free kick to them which fortunately came to nothing. Lincoln then proceeded to hit the woodwork 3 times and get the ball in the back of the net twice without troubling the scorers. As a team we were all over the place and possibly only Richards came out with any credit during this period. Just to give an account of this action where they did not score. The first was a shot across Lavercombe which hit the base of the post and came out. The next was a shot was outside the area which dipped late, beat Lavercombe, bounced down and out for their striker to head home but fortunately from an off side position. He scored again from short range after the ball was knocked back in to the far post but again off side! I think he was off side again for another attack shortly after and must have begun to think it was not his day. The final miss was again a cross to the far post that was side footed at waist height, just over and clipping the cross bar as it did so. So, the second half perhaps saw Lincoln sit back more and invite us on to them but we started to take control with just the finishing touches being missing and a better strike pairing of Briscoe and Campion May have yielded something. I thing Campion suffered a nose bleed requiring treatment and looked very groggy and it was noticeable that no striker warmed up or Nico did not come from his defensive position at the other side of the pitch to assess the situation and as a result we had to play with 10 men for a time. Briscoe had a poor game and on one of our attacks, the ball came out to him on the edge of the area and his shot was so bad it screwed behind him which unfortunately summed up his day. I thought Wright and Fairhurst looked a better pairing although the latter is not up to speed yet. It was a pity then that Lincoln were able to score next. A harsh free kick which saw Richards booked was hit towards our goal and Lavercombe seemed to drop the ball, possibly.making contact with his own defender to concede another gimme goal. We were able to hit back quite quickly with the best move of the match. A battling Shepherd managed to retrieve the ball and put Heslop through and his pass to Butler put him clear to slot past both their keeper and their covering defenders. A few handbags were thrown when Shepherd tried to pick up the ball from the net but their players escaped unpunished by the ref. I think if were only 2-1 down we would have got something from the game as we pushed forward with Shepherd putting a lot of effort in on the wing and earning his motm award with a lot of good attacks coming through him and Wright making a nuisance of himself. If I must be critical of this period we just made a few wrong decisions around the area. Butler shot wide when he could have passed to Wright in a better position. Nico shot over the bar from long range which was never going to beat the keeper when Butler was clear on the left. Shepherd neatly crossed the ball to their defender on the edge of the area after beating the full back. Saying that he did get in front of their defender to only just narrowly direct the ball wide of the post. So a lot more entertaining game than of late. If we can put a 90 minute performance in and cut out the defensive errors then a few wins may just come our way...... Nicely reported Rob. The Conference South trap door started to creak open at this game. All three goals were 'gifted' in my opinion and if we continue with the Christmas spirit (4 last week) then Privater Fraser will be proved right. Thought Gerring (bumped into his old Manager at the Dumpling last night who asked how he got on) had a decent debut and Richards had a good game. 'Shep' had a decent game along with the Wright (who needs to start next week). Other results not in our favour - Halifax winning 4 - 1 away at Gateshead, Southport winning, well at least Boreham Wood lost and thank gawd the Kiddi game was called off. A few handbags were thrown when Shepherd tried to pick up the ball from the net but their players escaped unpunished by the ref. One of my many pet hates with the game - should be a straight yellow card. Boy, did we miss Hurst!
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Nov 22, 2015 9:16:12 GMT
Simon - yes, slight optimism but only in the context that previous games seen were mind numbingly awful and I actually had something to cheer about yesterday!
Phil - agree that all 3 goals conceded were from defensive frailties and that has to be the key to staying up. Would help if we had our shooting boots on and two key turning points in the game were when Butler missed his early chance at 0-0 and also when we conceded the third goal imo.
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Post by twoleftfeet on Nov 22, 2015 10:05:25 GMT
So a first start for Ben Gerring today with Shepherd on the right wing and a Campion / Briscoe combo upfront. We started ok with Butler beating his marker on one attack to make a foray into the area and a little after Shepherd did some good work to get the ball across the area to an unmarked Butler but he horribly screwed his shot wide when maybe he could have taken a quick touch first? That was about as good as it got in the first half. We did try to counter attack from a Lincoln corner but their player cynically pulled our player back and was lucky to,escape with just a dressing down. Their next corner was nicely delivered hard and flat to the edge of our six yard box for them to head unimpeded home and almost had a training ground feel to it. Their second came from their striker playing off the last defender to slot home past an advancing Lavercombe. It was all one way traffic thereafter. However there was a nasty 50/50 ball where their number 8 and Gerring managed to take each other out and the crowd wanted to see a red card but the ref gave a dangerous free kick to them which fortunately came to nothing. Lincoln then proceeded to hit the woodwork 3 times and get the ball in the back of the net twice without troubling the scorers. As a team we were all over the place and possibly only Richards came out with any credit during this period. Just to give an account of this action where they did not score. The first was a shot across Lavercombe which hit the base of the post and came out. The next was a shot was outside the area which dipped late, beat Lavercombe, bounced down and out for their striker to head home but fortunately from an off side position. He scored again from short range after the ball was knocked back in to the far post but again off side! I think he was off side again for another attack shortly after and must have begun to think it was not his day. The final miss was again a cross to the far post that was side footed at waist height, just over and clipping the cross bar as it did so. So, the second half perhaps saw Lincoln sit back more and invite us on to them but we started to take control with just the finishing touches being missing and a better strike pairing of Briscoe and Campion May have yielded something. I thing Campion suffered a nose bleed requiring treatment and looked very groggy and it was noticeable that no striker warmed up or Nico did not come from his defensive position at the other side of the pitch to assess the situation and as a result we had to play with 10 men for a time. Briscoe had a poor game and on one of our attacks, the ball came out to him on the edge of the area and his shot was so bad it screwed behind him which unfortunately summed up his day. I thought Wright and Fairhurst looked a better pairing although the latter is not up to speed yet. It was a pity then that Lincoln were able to score next. A harsh free kick which saw Richards booked was hit towards our goal and Lavercombe seemed to drop the ball, possibly.making contact with his own defender to concede another gimme goal. We were able to hit back quite quickly with the best move of the match. A battling Shepherd managed to retrieve the ball and put Heslop through and his pass to Butler put him clear to slot past both their keeper and their covering defenders. A few handbags were thrown when Shepherd tried to pick up the ball from the net but their players escaped unpunished by the ref. I think if were only 2-1 down we would have got something from the game as we pushed forward with Shepherd putting a lot of effort in on the wing and earning his motm award with a lot of good attacks coming through him and Wright making a nuisance of himself. If I must be critical of this period we just made a few wrong decisions around the area. Butler shot wide when he could have passed to Wright in a better position. Nico shot over the bar from long range which was never going to beat the keeper when Butler was clear on the left. Shepherd neatly crossed the ball to their defender on the edge of the area after beating the full back. Saying that he did get in front of their defender to only just narrowly direct the ball wide of the post. So a lot more entertaining game than of late. If we can put a 90 minute performance in and cut out the defensive errors then a few wins may just come our way...... Fair assessment of the game I think. Midfield went missing throughout the first half not winning tackles or picking up second ball and as for Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum up front up front, I've rarely seen two mare static strikers. They didn't win a header, hold the ball up, run in behind or work the channels. We looked much better in the second half when they both went off.
I thought Angus was poor yesterday and struggled against their big centre forward and because he couldn't win the arial challenges he ended up in no mans land neither challenging or dropping off far enough. Why him and Gerring, who did seem a match when he did challenge their big guy, didn't swap amazes me. Just common sense really.
Their last goal was unfortunate. Lavercombe had called for the ball when Gerring clattered into him knocking the ball out of his hands, having said that I thought Gerring had a decent game and will get better after a run in the side.
Overall, if they can play as they did in the second half they will pick up points and a win won't be too far away. There are positives in that defeat although I wouldn't have said that after the first half.
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gullpower
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Dream in yellow.
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Post by gullpower on Nov 22, 2015 22:32:03 GMT
A good and fair match report by rjdgull and I agree with floridagull. There is nothing to be gained by pessimism.
Also the performances on the pitch have to be seen in context with what's happening off the pitch. The club is short of cash so has difficulty getting decent players. Nico has lost some of his best players through injury and suspension. As fast as he gets a replacement in he loses another. It's impossible for him to get a group of players that consistently play matches together.
I came away from the game more concerned by the lack of support from the crowd. It's understandable when things are going badly later in the game but from the off the Yellow Army were very quiet. There was no call and response chant immediately after the kick off and the drummer seems to have gone AWOL. The lads need support and encouragement if they are going to play their best and entertain us. There was some critical chanting from that section at the end too which is understandable but disappointing.
Perhaps reinstating the old run out tune would bring us a change of luck! God knows we need it.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Nov 23, 2015 16:08:32 GMT
There is nothing to be gained by pessimism. I think it is taking a realistic view of the situation (looking at the players, no cash available, new PM etc.) rather than being pessimistic. As I said before we'd have been better off keeping Chris Hargreaves.
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gullpower
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Dream in yellow.
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Post by gullpower on Nov 23, 2015 22:09:29 GMT
There is nothing to be gained by pessimism. As I said before we'd have been better off keeping Chris Hargreaves. In principle I agree. It's apparent that clubs that have the longest serving managers are the most successful. This is supported by Ferguson and Wenger and there have also been academic studies to show this to be true. However Hargreaves proved to be unsympathetic to Torquay's financial plight and refused to take a pay cut. And who can blame him if he thought he was worth more. My point is that Nicholson needs to be given time to create a team of his own players and the club and the fans need to stick by him. He hasn't got a magic wand and there's no money. Whether he can do this in time to keep us up remains to be seen. But if he can't there will be nothing to be gained by getting rid of him. Keep the faith, dream in yellow and stay positive!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2015 23:13:11 GMT
chelstongull
I think we'd probably be quite a bit farther up the table than we are at present. But I'm certain that the perception amongst the majority of fans would have been that we were worse off through keeping him. Just imagine if we'd kept Chris and we were now in one of the mid table spots as occupied by Woking or Aldershot and 10 points adrift of even a play-off place; the forums would be in melt down and the demands for Hargreaves dismissal would be deafening. 'We should have had a clean break in the Summer...new owners should have brought in their own manager etc etc'
gullpower That's pretty much the opposite of the truth according to Dave Thomas, who gave us his understanding of what happened on the HE Podcast on 18th June.
'They were asked to take significant pay cuts, even United admit that. Chris Hargreaves was prepared to consider a pay cut. He's done it before a couple of times to my certain knowledge. Before the discussions could get much further it quickly became apparent the new consortium were probably thinking of going in a new direction anyway, and all three of them have now been placed on gardening leave, which in United's perilous financial situation that is quite a significant move in itself, because you've now got three men who will have to be paid'
I can well believe that Hargreaves wrong footed them by being willing to discuss a sizeable pay cut. Don't forget that the new guys coming in were hell bent on getting rid of Chris, as I alluded to on this forum on May 26th, when we began to learn the identities of some key figures in the likely new set up:
Alpine Joe (26/5/2015)
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Post by valgull on Nov 24, 2015 15:42:28 GMT
chelstongull
I think we'd probably be quite a bit farther up the table than we are at present. But I'm certain that the perception amongst the majority of fans would have been that we were worse off through keeping him. Just imagine if we'd kept Chris and we were now in one of the mid table spots as occupied by Woking or Aldershot and 10 points adrift of even a play-off place; the forums would be in melt down and the demands for Hargreaves dismissal would be deafening. 'We should have had a clean break in the Summer...new owners should have brought in their own manager etc etc'
gullpower That's pretty much the opposite of the truth according to Dave Thomas, who gave us his understanding of what happened on the HE Podcast on 18th June.
'They were asked to take significant pay cuts, even United admit that. Chris Hargreaves was prepared to consider a pay cut. He's done it before a couple of times to my certain knowledge. Before the discussions could get much further it quickly became apparent the new consortium were probably thinking of going in a new direction anyway, and all three of them have now been placed on gardening leave, which in United's perilous financial situation that is quite a significant move in itself, because you've now got three men who will have to be paid'
I can well believe that Hargreaves wrong footed them by being willing to discuss a sizeable pay cut. Don't forget that the new guys coming in were hell bent on getting rid of Chris, as I alluded to on this forum on May 26th, when we began to learn the identities of some key figures in the likely new set up:
Alpine Joe (26/5/2015) Dave Thomas' understanding does not always reflect the truth of the matter!
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