hector
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Post by hector on Oct 11, 2014 19:47:39 GMT
MacDonald's not the only centre-back who's suspended, you know. So don't just blame him... This is entirely on Hargreaves, though. We don't know how well Hutchings would've played but at least there would have been no obvious complaints had he had a tough time As for Hawley, what can I say? The guy's a terrific footballer who was used terribly by us and the abuse he received here was awful. Contrary to popular belief, he always tried hard but couldn't do much in the role he was given because he wasn't suited to it. Today he showed what he could do if used correctly. He could bang 20-odd goals this season. And we paid him to leave! Honestly, I'm pleased for him Nonsense - how can you suggest he was used correctly? Alfreton haven't scored for 400 minutes before today. What has he been doing for all of that time? Probably the same as he did for his time at Plainmoor. very little. They wouldn't know how to use any forward properly. Hawley was playing against a non-existent defence and Martin Rice. Most of us would have had a sniff. The difference in Hawley today and Hawley for us, is that he applied some effort today that he never displayed for us. Terrific footballers don't end up playing for Alfreton. There were hardly hordes of potential clubs banging the door down when we had to pay him off for sitting on a massive contract for doing nothing.If he had an ounce of 'terrificness' about him, he would have been able to summon up more than 3 goals in a year. But as you say, he could bang 20-odd goals this season. Yes, he could, but he won't. |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 11, 2014 19:59:54 GMT
MacDonald's not the only centre-back who's suspended, you know. So don't just blame him... He was the guy who got a stupid yellow last week knowing that Downes would miss tonights match. All four goals were the result of errors. I saw that Yeoman came on as a sub, did he ever touch the ball - don't remember his name being mentioned? |
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Oct 11, 2014 20:52:30 GMT
Nonsense - how can you suggest he was used correctly? Because we were hoofing it to him despite him being about 5 ft 2. The way we played last year was a complete joke until we actually got a striker who could perform the role Knill needed for his style of football to work |
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Oct 11, 2014 20:57:38 GMT
MacDonald's not the only centre-back who's suspended, you know. So don't just blame him... He was the guy who got a stupid yellow last week knowing that Downes would miss tonights match. All four goals were the result of errors. I saw that Yeoman came on as a sub, did he ever touch the ball - don't remember his name being mentioned? Again, two forwards on the bench and no wingers, not sure what Chappell did either? |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 11, 2014 22:24:48 GMT
Stopped watching at 2-2. Knew Hargreaves' stubbornness not to sort out the clear central defence tactical cock up at half time would do for us. Very disappointed with the Manager tonight. In Hutchings shoes, I would be after a loan back to Grays or similar asap.
Richards is an absolutely cracking centre-mid. Wakefield is no great shakes there as of yet. Tactical stubbornness to admit error and daftness to have even tried it. I think Richards has plenty of inner grit and determination to shrug this off when restored to his rightful position and look forward to seeing his all action, no shirking, quality central midfield play again very soon.
I'm sure Hargreaves will reflect again at some point on the results when we travel on the day, as BT understandably were also, (Darttford 0-0, Telford 3-4 and today cf. the wins at Grimsby and Lincoln) but he needs to look closer to home tonight at his own poor showing in what has been a decent first full season of management to date.
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Post by hullgull on Oct 12, 2014 6:58:53 GMT
Morning all.......obviously we all disappointed bout last night........but in hindsight.....against a team that hadn't scored in god knows how many minutes.....the gaffer took a gamble......unfortunately it didn't work......but on the other side hyperthetical ly,if had worked he would hAd been a tactical genius.......we can't condemn the gaffer over this to much.....look at the right decisions he has made to......we are still in the mix....and will continue to for rest of season........yeah am peeved off.....but do know we will come back from this......njoy your day all of you.......si
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 12, 2014 7:35:37 GMT
we can't condemn the gaffer over this to much Oh yes we can - he picks the team and must expect flack when we ship again)FOUR goals against a team near the bottom of the league.Once is unfortunate, twice is careless. Must be the worse game for years by a Torquay back four. Not sure why he picked Richards at CB (not the tallest guy) unless he (CR) has played there in a previous life. My pick (easy to say after the game) would have been to play Harding because of his height. Each goal was down to individual error(s) especially the third - Tongue gets out muscled and the fourth - Richards had all the time in the world to pass the ball back to Rice or kick the ball out. All in all a forgetable night. |
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Oct 12, 2014 8:13:00 GMT
Nonsense - how can you suggest he was used correctly? Because we were hoofing it to him despite him being about 5 ft 2. The way we played last year was a complete joke until we actually got a striker who could perform the role Knill needed for his style of football to work He's a bit taller than that but I know what you mean. Hector, as usual, still ignores reality. Strikers are only as good as the service they get, creating chances for them to finish. The service last season from Bodin, Chappell, Cameron and whoever else played as a supposed attacking wide midfielder was, for the majority of the season, poor. Hawley had more chances yesterday than he did in any match last season, no doubt helped by playing up front with someone that was big enough and strong enough to win/retain possession and play the ball along the ground (the first start for Clayton for about 6 or so games according to the commentators). Add to that the fact that, despite what some people will trumpet, there is a big difference in quality between League 2 and the Conference. There's probably 2, maybe 3 teams, that could be comfortable in league 2. The rest (us included im afraid) would spend the season in the bottom 4 places. I can only assume the decision to play Richards at centreback was to try and mark Hawley, with Pearce looking after Clayton? If so, it was certainly a dismal failure. Would Mac and Downesy have done any better? Probably, but no one will ever know for sure. |
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Post by hullgull on Oct 12, 2014 8:29:04 GMT
we can't condemn the gaffer over this to much Oh yes we can - he picks the team and must expect flack when we ship again)FOUR goals against a team near the bottom of the league.Once is unfortunate, twice is careless. Must be the worse game for years by a Torquay back four. Not sure why he picked Richards at CB (not the tallest guy) unless he (CR) has played there in a previous life. My pick (easy to say after the game) would have been to play Harding because of his height. Each goal was down to individual error(s) especially the third - Tongue gets out muscled and the fourth - Richards had all the time in the world to pass the ball back to Rice or kick the ball out. All in all a forgetable night. Yeah your right bout forgettable night.......but is it the gaffers fault that these mistakes were made......no it isn't chelston.........every manager in football and every other team sport has made a mistake somewhere along the line......this will make him a stronger manager from this.....but as was said in prevoius posts .....what bout the cards picked up by other players in prevoius games....that didn't help the cause. In anyway.......your also right bout the worse defensive performance in long time......have a good day chelston....c'mon you yellows......si |
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Post by Swanny on Oct 12, 2014 9:59:42 GMT
Granted Hawley was not played in his favoured position at Torquay but it still does not excuse his poor shooting such as scuffed shots when he did have a decent chance. A certain Mr. Knill brought in Hawley just before the season started without having played him or loanee Callum Ball in any pre-season friendlies. A botched job to say the least.
The most significant reason in my opinion why Hawley did not perform at Torquay, more so than not having a big target man to play off, was simply because he did not want to be at Torquay. I heard through a good source even in the early part of Alan Knill's tenure last season that Hawley was homesick. I found this surprising at the time as Hawley was hardly a youngster like Billy Kee who wanted to leave Torquay for the same reason. Hargreaves also mentioned several times last season that there are some players who do not want to be here. It is pretty safe to say that Hawley did not settle in Torquay and he will perform better for Alfreton now he is back to his roots.
It is so important that Torquay managers choose players who are hungry to do well at our club and have not just popped down to get a decent pay cheque. This is where Hargreaves and before him Buckle went to great pains in signing players at Torquay with that hunger. Both have made this point in past interviews and it is an area that Alan Knill got woefully wrong. The players need to have the club at heart and needs careful judgement from the manager he is the right player for this club. It's not just ability and past glories.
As for Hargreaves, he's done a fine job this season especially in his recruiting but last night he dropped a huge clanger in putting Richards as centre back. It reminds me of Buckle when he went ultra defensive in the play-offs against Exeter - a horrible decision that failed miserably.
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petef
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Post by petef on Oct 12, 2014 10:21:40 GMT
Thought we still looked dangerous going forward in the second half when we finally decided to get the ball down and play to feet but we again left huge gaps through the middle and at the back that left us open and vulnerable to any attack. Earlier in the season when we had a defence that was pretty watertight we had our best and most convincing performances - we lose our solidity and cohesion and do not adapt and the end result is what we saw yesterday. Downs and Macdonald must be re installed it was our best pairing with Downes chipping in regularly with important goals whilst Pearce didn't look comfortable at all and was continually pulled out wide leaving Richards exposed. As to the team choice I have my own opinions, one being that Hargreaves didn't want to leave either Richards or Wakefield, who performed quite well last week, out and needed a way to accommodate both players. Young picks himself and I thought he did have some really good moments again yesterday and looked shot at the end of the match.
Although Ricey cannot really be blamed for any of the goals he still does not instill much confidence particularly with crosses coming into the box and was lucky with one refereeing decision in the first half when it could have been even more embarrassing. Bowman also is a concern chances again yesterday that he spurned though injured now which gives Oforie and Briscoe a chance.
Do we slide now and throw away our early success or regroup and kick on again . Big question.
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hector
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Post by hector on Oct 12, 2014 12:09:34 GMT
Granted Hawley was not played in his favoured position at Torquay but it still does not excuse his poor shooting such as scuffed shots when he did have a decent chance. A certain Mr. Knill brought in Hawley just before the season started without having played him or loanee Callum Ball in any pre-season friendlies. A botched job to say the least. The most significant reason in my opinion why Hawley did not perform at Torquay, more so than not having a big target man to play off, was simply because he did not want to be at Torquay. I heard through a good source even in the early part of Alan Knill's tenure last season that Hawley was homesick. I found this surprising at the time as Hawley was hardly a youngster like Billy Kee who wanted to leave Torquay for the same reason. Hargreaves also mentioned several times last season that there are some players who do not want to be here. It is pretty safe to say that Hawley did not settle in Torquay and he will perform better for Alfreton now he is back to his roots. It is so important that Torquay managers choose players who are hungry to do well at our club and have not just popped down to get a decent pay cheque. This is where Hargreaves and before him Buckle went to great pains in signing players at Torquay with that hunger. Both have made this point in past interviews and it is an area that Alan Knill got woefully wrong. The players need to have the club at heart and needs careful judgement from the manager he is the right player for this club. It's not just ability and past glories. As for Hargreaves, he's done a fine job this season especially in his recruiting but last night he dropped a huge clanger in putting Richards as centre back. It reminds me of Buckle when he went ultra defensive in the play-offs against Exeter - a horrible decision that failed miserably. I think you sum up what DVN and the fellow defenders of Hawley ignore - he was blatantly just not interested. The same people who defend Hawley (largely on BPIR) will attack Benyon's record of exactly the same total of 3 goals. Benyon's sympathisers could offer the same retort, that he didn't get any suitable service. So if Hawley was so poor because of lack of service, then surely the same is true of Benyon. But then we saw a teenager come in from Spurs, who, with the same shoddy service, looked more dangerous, creative and effective, than Hawley/Benyon did all season. He made things happen. Sadly, Hawley - through lack of interest, despite his hefty salary, and Benyon, through lack of ability and body strength, were incapable of doing the same. Hawley yesterday, was up against a defence that was softer than any he will encounter all season. He couldn't fail with the second - Richards gifted it to him and he only had an increasingly erratic Rice in front of him. Had he missed that, then he would be even worse than anyone dared think he was. |
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petef
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Post by petef on Oct 12, 2014 13:13:34 GMT
If it was the case that Richards was put there to defensively mark Hawley then it blows Hargreaves coaching and tactical ability out of the water. Defenders are coached to be defenders and mark players a certain way. To ask a lifelong midfielder to do a central defenders job was asking for trouble and we got what we deserved.
I would guess that Richards was asked if he fancied it and unfortunately showed willing "sure boss anything you ask!"
What I cannot get my head around is that it was clear after 20 minutes that the scenario would all end in tears and despite having options on the bench to change it he refused to do so with the obvious change being to restore Richards to midfield for the ineffective Wakefield and bring on either Harding or Hutchings in the center of defense.
Did he not even consider a plan"B".
It just doesn't make sense to me and he is maybe to close to certain players and is losing his objectivity.
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Oct 12, 2014 14:06:14 GMT
I think you sum up what DVN and the fellow defenders of Hawley ignore - he was blatantly just not interested. The same people who defend Hawley (largely on BPIR) will attack Benyon's record of exactly the same total of 3 goals. Benyon's sympathisers could offer the same retort, that he didn't get any suitable service. So if Hawley was so poor because of lack of service, then surely the same is true of Benyon. But then we saw a teenager come in from Spurs, who, with the same shoddy service, looked more dangerous, creative and effective, than Hawley/Benyon did all season. He made things happen. Sadly, Hawley - through lack of interest, despite his hefty salary, and Benyon, through lack of ability and body strength, were incapable of doing the same. Hawley yesterday, was up against a defence that was softer than any he will encounter all season. He couldn't fail with the second - Richards gifted it to him and he only had an increasingly erratic Rice in front of him. Had he missed that, then he would be even worse than anyone dared think he was. Did we have someone from Spurs on loan? Who was that then? As for comparing Hawley with Benyon, of course it's an apt comparison (whatever anyone on BPIR says). Both of them are finishers. Both of them need dangerous balls into the box to convert. Neither of them got that service very often. Strikers at lower levels dont convert 50% of their chances (if they did they would soon be moving up). Its more like one in 3 or 4 or even greater. Hawley yesterday being a prime example. By my reckoning he had 6 reasonable chances yesterday, scored with 2, one hit straight at Ricey and 3 off target. Thats a 1 in 3 conversion rate. Even you can see if he only gets 1 or 2 reasonable chances in a game, he's not likely (on the law of averages) to convert them into goals. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Oct 12, 2014 16:58:59 GMT
Shaquille Coulthirst, DVN.
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