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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 9:08:18 GMT
I'm less convinced that this is a case of AN Wilson being successful in establishing a link between Mick Philpott and the Welfare State, as the BBC and The Guardian failing in their attempts to disguise the link. The British public don't seem to have found much to debate about Philpott as a person, as within 20 seconds they come to the unanimous agreement that he's a pretty nasty human being who should be locked up and the key thrown away. What seems to perplex them is why in this country a state of affairs has been allowed to develop that such a totally work-shy man could lead the 'Life of Reilly' with a mountain of cash coming into his home that would have put him in the top two per cent of earners. There was no way the BBC and Guardian, despite their valiant attempts, were going to keep a lid on this and stop it from being discussed. Such attempts to 'manage' the debate were as doomed to failure as wildebeeste's forlorn hope that TFF members would agree to keep comments in this thread within the tight confines of Daily Mail bashing. So when a few selective facts are released by the BBC, or when the Guardian coats the story in it's own special left wing gloss or when wildebeeste's take on things: gives a 'Move along, nothing welfare state related to see here' take on things, the public are refusing to be hoodwinked into not asking legitimate questions such as why such large amounts of taxpayers cash eventually find a way into building up a nice big healthy bank balance for characters such as Philpott ? Certain sections of the media will tell us that such subjects are not for discussion and that we mustn't even ask the question (as AN Wilson is finding out). But while the facts such as these remain The exact amount he received in benefits has not been revealed, but the court was told he lost £1,000 a month when his lover Miss Willis left him. He was receiving £20.30 a week child benefit for the eldest of the 11 children in the house and £13.40 each for the others, according to the Times, making £8,023.60 a year tax free. According to Revenue and Customs, Mairead, with six children, would be entitled to £20,560 in tax credits and Miss Willis to up to £17,870 totalling £38,430, also tax free. Therefore he could have been receiving £46,453 in benefits. Housing benefit also paid his £7,800 a year rent on his Derby home, which along with the money he got from both his partners cleaning jobs, could have taken his “income” to almost £68,000 – the equivalent of a £100,000 salary after tax. This would have put Philpott in the top two per cent of earners. Telegraph
The public will want to question the politicians on the doorstep far more about our benefits system which the hard pressed taxpayer is struggling to fund, and far less about their opinions on certain Daily Mail journalists. I reckon the BBC, the Guardian, and even my favourite lefty Mr.W will have their work cut out on this one. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 13:00:48 GMT
The public will want to question the politicians on the doorstep far more about our benefits system which the hard pressed taxpayer is struggling to fund, and far less about their opinions on certain Daily Mail journalists. I reckon the BBC, the Guardian, and even my favourite lefty Mr.W will have their work cut out on this one. Nah. Piece of cake, AJ. HMRC have told the press that the Philpott/Willis family could (not that they did) claim Tax Credits. According to my Guardian (yeah yeah I know) this morning the only benefit that they were getting was Child Benefit, which will also have been paid to everyone on this forum who has had a child in his/her home. All reports suggest that this money was spent fairly and wisely on the children (who would have been the ones to suffer if CB had not been paid) so again the important point here is that whatever Philpott's other serious faults may be he is not a benefits cheat and consequently (in capitals because it deserves to be said again) IT IS DISHONEST TO PRETEND THAT HE IS SO SIMPLY TO MAKE A POLITICAL POINT. Ex public schoolboys of AN Wilson's persuasion love to develop their theories of the undeserving poor and to imply (or in his case state openly) that there is an underclass out there bleeding the rest of us dry, but Mick Philpott is no more representative of his class than was Lord Lucan. For what its worth my grandparents had 13 children (give or take a few; no-one seems sure and there is nobody left who can remember) and it's a good job they did since my dad was the 12th,and if they had stopped at 11 the attendance against Wycombe would have been even lower. But my grandad was no Mick Philpott. He died of bronchitis in 1944 and so never lived to see the dawn of the Welfare State, unfortunately, because he never got Invalidity Benefit (nor his State Pension come to that). Unemployment or disability can come to any of us at any time and if it does so we would need the safety and security of a humane benefits system, but that's not really the issue here. We have argued about it already till we are blue in the face. In this case AN WIlson and now George Osborne have deliberately mixed up a tragic criminal case with the argument for welfare cuts, it is a spurious connection and THAT is why there is a backlash against the pair of them that I invited you all to join in with. PS I forgot to add this: Steve, if your husband/wife/live-in lover is in FT employment you can't get Jobseeker's Allowance so the scrounging that Philpott did was off his abused women partners rather than the taxpayers (of which Mrs Philpott and Ms Willis will have been two). His own personal income, before taking it off the two women, would have been nothing at all. |
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Post by stefano on Apr 5, 2013 13:31:10 GMT
Nice to see the left wing press dupe their readers in the same way as the right wing press. Not that newspapers are of any relevance these days anyway with 24 hours access to news. I'm not a politician but the benfits system certainly has got to be drastically revised to provide for what it was originally intended. It may have escaped the attention of some but the last Labour Government having taken over an economy in the best state ever managed to drop us all right in it in only a few years. I am completely for a benefits system that provides a safety net for those who need it due to circumstances to live, but not to provide a good income for those who choose reliance on benefits as a lifestyle choice. There has even been an outcry over the intention of the present government to limit benefits to £26000 a year for a single household - That is £5000 a year MORE than the average wage for full time employment in the South West of England.
The biggest pity though is that all this discussion about benefits has distracted attention from what a horrible dispicable man that child murderer was!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 14:21:18 GMT
Your last sentence exemplifies my point here exactly, Steve, but what no-one is grasping here is that, horrible man that Philpott is, (capitals again)HE WAS NOT CHEATING THE BENEFITS SYSTEM. The two matters are entirely separate and the Left Wing press is duping nobody, least of all me because its my business to know this stuff.
As for the £26,000, this includes Housing Benefit and so hardly applies to anyone at all in the South West but to thousands in London and the south east. The money is not going into the pockets of the claimants but into the wallets of their landlords who are charging huge amounts of money for the pokiest of flats and houses. People in London will, as a result of the cap, be forced to move out of London altogether. Who knows, maybe some of them will come to Torbay and then there will be an even bigger shortage of accommodation in the Bay than there is at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 15:30:37 GMT
If Philpott had been cheating the benefits system we could have put a stop to it. The very fact that he wasn't meant that nothing could be done about it. The system is designed so that the more children you have that you can't afford, the more taxpayers money gets given to you.
That's why I reckon George Osborne knows he can't go wrong by asking: 'Are you sure this is really the way you want the welfare system to keep operating'.
Yes we probably don't want to rehash the whole welfare subject again, but if it was seen to act as a safety net as most people assumed it was originally designed to do, I doubt there'd be too much controversy. But just as the public probably thought the EU was just making trade easier with European nations, and now in 2013 read that EU troops are training Mali soldiers, so the welfare state has morphed into something that instead of providing a safety net often creates other problems or changes that suit no one but the social engineers.
I may be the only one who took up wildebeeste's suggestion
I'm still on the first of those three, and wasn't surprised that the top link took me to the Guardian. But even when I got on to reading the comments of the Guardianistas there were reminders that far from acting only as a safety net the welfare system creates a whole host of different problems:
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Working Families Tax Credit has increased the divorce or separation rate by a staggering 160 per cent among women married to or living with a partner who either does not work, or who earns very little because he works part-time.
THE benefits system is acting as a perverse incentive for single women to become lone parents, according to a report.
The study shows that women who split from their child's father to create a one-parent family are rewarded with higher levels of state benefits.
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Whether that particular Guardianista was completely accurate in the claims he/she made back in January 2010, I wouldn't know, but irrespective of that there is still a strongly held belief by many that there are areas of welfare spending that exacerbate problems or create a whole set of new ones, and the tragedy of the Philpott children has inevitably raised secondary issues for discussion once everyone has agreed how awful their father is.
wildebeeste
Definitely nothing wrong with large families per se, although it's probably difficult to justify the Nolan Sisters. You must have been questioning your will to live during that match wildebeeste...particularly at times during the second half ? I reckon the public purse should let you claim from a Wycombe Survivors Fund' for bravely making it through to the end of that one.
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Post by stefano on Apr 5, 2013 15:55:50 GMT
Well you must be right Mr Wildebeeste as you seem to have run up 411 Best Poster Votes which must be a record! It's either a left wing conspiracy or there is a serious blip in Dave's new software, OR maybe you have got your whole extended family voting for you!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 16:19:10 GMT
I'll withdraw from this argument also. That's a fairly clear endorsement proving that Wildebeeste has the TFF memberships opinion firmly on his side  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Apr 5, 2013 17:12:57 GMT
Well you must be right Mr Wildebeeste as you seem to have run up 411 Best Poster Votes which must be a record! It's either a left wing conspiracy or there is a serious blip in Dave's new software, OR maybe you have got your whole extended family voting for you!! wildebeeste now has five points in total, I’m using a plug-in that was designed to put a karma system on the forum, but made changes to it so it could be used for our poster on the month award. It does seem to have gone wrong and there is a new updated one I want to put on once Rob is back and sorted out last months award. For the record I find I can’t disagree with the last few posts APJ has made on this thread. The system needs to be looked at and changes made to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 19:53:17 GMT
Well you must be right Mr Wildebeeste as you seem to have run up 411 Best Poster Votes which must be a record! It's either a left wing conspiracy or there is a serious blip in Dave's new software, OR maybe you have got your whole extended family voting for you!! wildebeeste now has five points in total, I’m using a plug-in that was designed to put a karma system on the forum, but made changes to it so it could be used for our poster on the month award. It does seem to have gone wrong and there is a new updated one I want to put on once Rob is back and sorted out last months award. For the record I find I can’t disagree with the last few posts APJ has made on this thread. The system needs to be looked at and changes made to it. Typical. Give me my missing 406 votes back right now! |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on Apr 6, 2013 7:57:58 GMT
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2304860/Ashton-line-133-000-year--work-involved-Eu-foreign-policy-chiefs-bumper-pay-off.htmlWhile the papers have been having a field day with the piece of filth, this slips by undetected. The left Politicians are the ones we should be keeping tabs on. The Mail outs another scrounger. While I'm sure there are many benefit claimers who are fiddling the system, it is small potatoes compared to the skimming of money into Politicians pockets and their Bank paymasters. I can hear the laughter coming from Mr Rothchilds office as he sends a message to his Media goons to find another scapegoat to chase while he steals money from the Taxpayers.
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