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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2008 21:27:58 GMT
I'm not sure what I can add to this quite remarkable thread but I'll try with a couple of random strands, some personal history (and a bit of football).
Firstly, I'm reminded of a former colleague who was diagnosed with leukaemia about eight or nine years ago. The prognosis was desperate - she was told only to think in the medium-term. For a while she looked very ill and it didn't look good. Then, being the character she is, she went from strength-to-strength and was last seen heading in the direction of a promoted job two hundred miles away. Someone who seemed to inspire and flourish in equal measure.
She's into cricket and, with her connections, could know Ian Botham. I was amazed when he recently said that, in the case of child leukaemias, the survival rate has increased from 20% to 80% since 1985.
Secondly, we must surely know there are times when we make too much of a fuss over this bloody game that we watch - and, equally so, this bloody team which we follow so avidly.
Yet there are other times when we we're keenly reminded of the way this bloody game cements our lives. It's pointless, trivial, not worth getting angry about (well, not too often anyway) but at least it allows us to cope, escape and look forward.
I was fifteen when my father died of cancer in 1971. Looking back the initial signs were there in 1968 when, at the last minute, illness prevented him from taking me to my first away game. But, of course, I still went to Reading with a friend.
My father fell badly ill the following year but recovered. His convalescence, slow as it was, included a holiday in Bournemouth which just happened to coincide with a 2-1 win at Dean Court.
The cancer returned at the end of 1970. I think, to take my mind off it all, my mum allowed me to go on the special train to Leicester for the FA Cup tie in January 1971. The game was called off, the train turned back at Bristol.
United lost the re-arranged game, in my absence. The next evening we visited my father in hospital - no hospices in those days - and his first words were to ask the score.
I'm sure there were other conversations after that but I can't remember them. A few days later, to make up for the Leicester disappointment, my mum was happy for me to go on another special train for the league game at Bristol Rovers. Again we got to Bristol to learn the game had been postponed. I got back to Torquay station to be told by my mother to expect some bad news. The next day my father died.
My mother died of a stroke in 1992. The last time I saw her, before she fell ill, was when I stayed over after a midweek game. I guess my last proper words to her were to say I'd be home for the Bolton match the following week.
She died on a Sunday afternoon, the records saying that Torquay United were relegated that weekend. When the news came through I was at a friend's watching Manchester United lose the title to Leeds. Man U were losing 1-0 at Liverpool when the call came. As I was leaving for the hospital Liverpool got a second.
I did the decent thing and cheered.
And the Kop sang "Always look on the bright side of life!".
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 20, 2008 22:02:17 GMT
Wow what a thread and what a post from you Dave (and many others). There are so many sad things in life and so many uplifting acts of great courage and kindness that make life bareable when the chips are so far down.
The kind words and touching pm's I recieved only recently following our tragic news meant so much and I am sure Chris will be lifted by the same.
This site is rapidly becoming the "family" that we all knew it would be.
All together now...............
"Some things in life are bad, They can really make you mad, Other things just make you swear and curse, When you're chewing life's gristle, Don't grumble, Give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best. And...
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Post by chrish on Nov 20, 2008 23:14:51 GMT
My dad died at the age of 53 almost nine years ago now. He was diagnosed with cancer after a exploratory op at Torbay Hospital to see if they could reverse what they did to him after he had Crohn's disease when he was 18 or so. The poor bugger had a colostomy bag for years and years and he was hoping that they could reverse this providing the operation back in the 1960's left enough bits to put back together again. Unfortunately the surgeon didn't like what he saw and took a biopsy. Results came back and he was diagnosed with cancer of the rectum.
I finished University and came back home because I feared the worse and I wanted to be there to support my mum. He was given chemotherapy for six months after surgery to remove as much cancerous tissue as possible. He was then in remission for 6 months . But then the cancer came back and was far more aggressive than it was previously. He hung on grimly for another 8 months and then he went back in hospital for the last time and died a couple of weeks later.
I had a bit of a strange relationship with my father. Up until I was 15 or 16 years old it was pretty good. I'm very grateful that I had a pretty decent childhood. As a family we never had that much money but I can only remember a few occasions when we didn't have a family holiday or didn't have nice toys and things when me and my sister were kids. Both my parents were very supportive.
Then when I turned 15 or 16 something changed in him towards me and I never knew what I did to annoy him so much and I never knew what else I could do to please him or to stop the constant flow of criticism. It was almost like he resented me for getting a few decent GCSEs, then A Levels and then getting a degree but then his mates, his colleagues and my mother told me that he couldn't stop saying how proud he was of me. He had few problems at work and his famous temper managed to lose him his job of 30 years at Newton Abbot Motors.
The daft thing was that the only time he told me was proud was when he was in a Torbay Hospital bed with an oxygen mask on and being pumped with morphine. I told him that it was ok but deep down inside I was absolutely livid. For 8 years he'd been giving me a bad time because he had my best interests at heart!
There were many times during the last 18 months of his life where I could've quite happily strangled the bloke because of the way he treated me and my mum. I guess as with most cancer patients when they do get frustrated about their own situation you end up taking it out on the very people that care about you the most.
When he did eventually go it was a mixture of sadness and relief for all of us I think. It was quite funny about 2 days before he did depart this world. His sister came to visit and he absolutely hated her. He was circling the airport on morphine and completely zonked out until she started to move his water bottle when he had a Frankenstein moment, the eyes shot wide open and his hands shot up from underneath the bed sheets to wrestle it back off her with a ferocity that turned his knuckles white. I had to leave the room and double up with laughter outside. The nurse thought I was cracking up. I was, but I still had a few marbles left back then.
I think that's one of the keys in dealing, coping and beating the big C. Keeping a sense of humour in some of the darkest situations helps everyone because it reminds you of why you married someone or why they are a dear friend or in my case (whether I like it or not) having my father develop my sense of humour over the years. It's taken me a good 9 years to come to terms with my fathers death. I felt very guilty in the first few years because I couldn't feel that sad about him dying. My sister was very close to him and my mum felt very lonely without him. All I felt was a huge relief at the time that I could go through life without someone constantly on your back. But as I've got older and wiser I think that I've leaned to appreciate him more and more. I sometimes regret not having the foresight to change things during the 8 years when we didn't get on very well. I can see now that he was quite a character really. His mates were the same as well. They said he still weighed a fair bit when carried his coffin into the Crematorium!They also told me the real reason why he pranged his Ford Capri in the mid 1980's. Another drunken Friday night at WBB where the designated "driver" drunk as much as the rest but had to risk his licence one week in four!
My heart goes out to everyone who's suffered from cancer or have seen someone close to them die of it. It sounds like from what Chris Hargreaves has written on his blog that the Todd family contains more than a couple of strong characters who will keep Chris motivated enough to come through this with flying colours.
I think Dave is bang on about the secret being to live as normal a life as possible. Dave, I hope this continues for you for as long as possible.
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 21, 2008 4:09:36 GMT
I never knew what I did to annoy him so much and I never knew what else I could do to please him or to stop the constant flow of criticism. It was almost like he resented me for getting a few decent GCSEs, then A Levels and then getting a degree but then his mates, his colleagues and my mother told me that he couldn't stop saying how proud he was of me. I guess as with most cancer patients when they do get frustrated about their own situation you end up taking it out on the very people that care about you the most. The fact that he said those good things to others cancels out that suspicion you harboured Chris. Constant nagging pain has a terrible detrimental effect on the character of some people and if frustration is added to that alchemy then we have to understand how it is for them. Before I was treated and investigated for suspected heart trouble a couple of years ago I used to get very frustrated at my intermittent "energy crashes".....................not only that but very angry too when my partner apparently failed to realise what a debilitating effect this was having on me and (it seemed) couldn't wait to get "on my case" What I'm saying is Chris, is that to fully understand the apparent "unfair" reaction of someone; one needs to put oneself in their shoes. Now Bijou is getting fat, heavier in pregnancy and puffing and blowing like a good 'un do I take the opportunity to remind her how it is to lose one's energy; or do I keep my own counsel and wait for the next time I come in from a twelve hour day and she moans at me for not having the energy to put those bloody bunk beds for the kids together that have been laying in the hallway for two months? For many, to love is to care and to care is to be critical...................it's just like that.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 21, 2008 7:03:35 GMT
Thanks for your honest and moving post Chris, I will reply later in more detail later. but I would just say now, that no matter how bad things have been for Carol. no matter how much pain she has been in( the chemo she had this time did what they said it would and really attacked all her nerves and the pain was everywhere and no relief could be found) she has never once took it out on anyone, but still smiled and that has helped to make it easier., but harder as well when you think that such a beautiful person, should even have to deal with what she has too.
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Post by buster on Nov 21, 2008 13:18:40 GMT
Chris
I understand your frustration with your father, but i can also see where maybe he was coming from.
15-16 is such a key stage in your life. your no longer a child adulthood is just around the corner. As parents we can draw on our own experiences and he may simply have been tying to ensure that you did not have any regrets. I know i`m often guilty of being too harse on my lad. This only stems from the fact that I know compared with me at the same age he has had far greater experiences and arguably is more gifted than I was. So it is perhaps with a sense that I don`t want him to throw away this good start in life. But of course in doing so you realise that perhaps you are putting unecesary pressure on your son. Whilst as a son all you really want from your dad is fun & solidity. Its the old saying we hurt the ones closest to us. Theres no manual on being a parent that gets you through conversations that start up at the dinner table as an innocent remark about the length of time spent on Xbox compared with revision.
I don`t know if you have reached the stage of being the dad of a teenager. But if not you may understand a little of what your mum & dad were going through when/if you do. In short don`t be too harse or judgemental on him. He may have been doing what he felt was right. Apologies if i`m completely wide of the mark and he was just an old pig headed so and so. no offence intended.
buster
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NickGull
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Post by NickGull on Nov 21, 2008 17:53:04 GMT
Chris I understand your frustration with your father, but i can also see where maybe he was coming from. 15-16 is such a key stage in your life. your no longer a child adulthood is just around the corner. As parents we can draw on our own experiences and he may simply have been tying to ensure that you did not have any regrets. I know i`m often guilty of being too harse on my lad. This only stems from the fact that I know compared with me at the same age he has had far greater experiences and arguably is more gifted than I was. So it is perhaps with a sense that I don`t want him to throw away this good start in life. But of course in doing so you realise that perhaps you are putting unecesary pressure on your son. Whilst as a son all you really want from your dad is fun & solidity. Its the old saying we hurt the ones closest to us. Theres no manual on being a parent that gets you through conversations that start up at the dinner table as an innocent remark about the length of time spent on Xbox compared with revision. I don`t know if you have reached the stage of being the dad of a teenager. But if not you may understand a little of what your mum & dad were going through when/if you do. In short don`t be too harse or judgemental on him. He may have been doing what he felt was right. Apologies if i`m completely wide of the mark and he was just an old pig headed so and so. no offence intended. buster I'm at that stage now! GCSE's next year and that - looking forward to getting them out of the way to be honest!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 22, 2008 8:29:43 GMT
Dear God, I pray for a cure for cancer. Amen In memory or honor of anyone you know that has died from cancer, or is a survivor, or still living with it.
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Post by chrish on Nov 23, 2008 13:18:56 GMT
Dave, Buster and Merse.
Thanks so much for taking the time to write something in reply to my post. It was only really my intention when posting just to share my experiences of what I was feeling at the time of Dad's death from an illness which you truly wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.
For me its all about coming to terms with it years after he died. As I said I was so angry with him at the time I completely blocked it out until about 5 years ago. I'm 100% sure now that even during the worst periods of our relationship that he had my best interests at heart but at the time it was a real self confidence zapper to have someone constantly criticising everything you do when I personally thought I was doing a pretty good job of organising my life and facing up to the challenges of adulthood. I didn't need the constant nagging. All I needed to know was that he'd support me in whatever decision I took or which career path I wanted to go down. I worked hard to support myself at University so I was as little a financial burden to him as possible. At the time all I could got from him was negativity but it was seemingly fine for younger sister to lie, cheat and steal her way through life.
But that was then. It was only until I started hitting my late twenties when I learned to calm down a bit and not let that period affect me so much. As buster points out I don't have the experience of being a father. I'm sure that if and when I find a decent woman who's mad enough to have kids with me then I'm sure that I'll manage to screw things up as badly. My mistake was that I took it all rather personally for years and years when I just should've carried on the doing what I was doing. I still have problems with taking criticism but at least I'm not so aggressive in my own defence anymore!
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 23, 2008 13:40:08 GMT
My mistake was that I took it all rather personally for years and years when I just should've carried on the doing what I was doing. I still have problems with taking criticism but at least I'm not so aggressive in my own defence anymore! So frequently am I criticised that I've adopted the mantra "don't take it personally, it's only YOU they're having a go at" I find it works a treat.
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