petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Feb 17, 2013 14:58:29 GMT
You are a brave man Loyal. Loyal by name and by nature going all the way to Rochdale whilst knowing more or less what to expect. The early season criticism/ apparent negativity was born out of such loyalty its now born out of fear,a fear that we actually have no one with a real tactical football brain left in the club. Even Martin Ling has been found wanting in the tactics department and in all honesty I believe he was remarkably fortunate to have had the season he did when he inherited and managed to sign some genuine quality players. After the quality departed we were left with the dregs and a few youth palyers who showed potential but clearly not ready. Those he did sign are simply either not up to it or are just not putting the performances in for whatever reason. Technically we look so poor, no composure, no flare or creativity on the ball and this just hasn't been addressed in any shape or form for months and months and would argue with Chelston that the club /manager should have responded much earlier than December to the sittuation. Now we have as squad devoid of leadership and worst of all confidence. When you see players looking up in the air for answers there is something drastically wrong. If we are to survive as a league club we need a drastic rethink of strategy. Number one has to be what is presented each week on the pitch and it seems to me that we have taken a huge gamble that Lingy and co were going to be able to survive this season and maybe longer with minimal bare bones squad investment. We are now getting close to the "shit or bust" situation, you know the one where we scavenge the scrap heap of players released by clubs or are playing reserve team football and finding an out of work temporary manager who can perform a miracle in the last two or three months of the season. Its the worst nightmare scenario I can imagine and entirely created by those in charge. Now where have I seen all this before? Nice pics Chris by the way. As a footnote I wonder how many of us would prefer Chris Zebroski in the starting line up. Despite his limitations he is the type of player we need right now, personal issues aside. I say this because I fear Billy Bodin despite having so much more natural ability has never once given us a ninety minute performance and I so wanted him to be a success.
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 17, 2013 15:48:09 GMT
Christ, if you want a competition of who called it first, I predicted us to finish 16th in the summer and said the squad wasn't deep enough...
But it's pointless making it something to brag over because it means nothing and it changes nothing. Yes, it could have been spotted sooner - much sooner - but 1) this happens a lot in this league, which is why so many teams lurch from being terrible to brilliant over the course of a couple of seasons, and 2) we have to deal with the problems we've got. Burying heads in the sand was mildly frustrating in the summer, and annoying in January, but it was be taking the piss if they did it now. We really need an appointment ASAP. That being said, I'm not saying take the first man through the door (unless he's Phil Brown...)
Similarly it hasn't helped that the fans have been divided - one lot doing the myopic patriotic tubthumping or happy-clappy we-can-still-make-the-playoffs positivity, another saying that the floor is caving in and we'll be relegated. In the middle a lot of people have been making intelligent comment but they keep getting grouped with one of the groups - the patriotic crowd put anyone criticising the situation in with the hysterical bunch and the hysterical bunch put anyone praising the club in with the happy-clappies
I want good debate but I also think people should calm down - on both sides. Things are bad. In fact I'd say they are very bad. But we still have a 6 point gap, winnable matches and a bunch of rubbish teams below us who won't all win on the same day as this weekend showed. We just need a manager who knows what he's doing and has the balls to drop some of these underperforming players that Ling and Taylor seemingly aren't willing to ditch
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Post by gullone on Feb 17, 2013 16:44:02 GMT
Christ, if you want a competition of who called it first, I predicted us to finish 16th in the summer and said the squad wasn't deep enough... In my most patronising teacher voice "WELL DONE YOU"! No in all seriousness i cant believe how things have turned since the new year results wise. Looking at the remaining fixtures im not sure where you see these winnable games either. Looking like an extremely bumpy ride to the end of the season just like it always is.
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Feb 17, 2013 17:00:03 GMT
Christ - Good shout maybe we could get him in for some divine intervention If not I hear the Pope maybe looking for some part time work, but then again what have the Romans ever done for us?
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Post by loyalgull on Feb 17, 2013 17:00:10 GMT
we have to win 5 of our last 17 games to stay up as a guess?on present performances i cant see one win.No leaders no inspiration no confidence its a total shambles.Teams are are made of defence midfield and attack at present we have 11 headless chickens not knowing what next to do predictable and easily beatable a frigging mess.Aldershot tuesday if we turn up in this mode i already know the outcome barring luck
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Feb 17, 2013 17:09:27 GMT
we have to win 5 of our last 17 games to stay up as a guess?on present performances i cant see one win.No leaders no inspiration no confidence its a total shambles.Teams are are made of defence midfield and attack at present we have 11 headless chickens not knowing what next to do predictable and easily beatable a frigging mess.Aldershot tuesday if we turn up in this mode i already know the outcome barring luck I disagree a little there loyal there are one or two who have performed to expectations, Downes and Howe for sure but even they are gradually being dragged down to base level by the rest others just not performing. Its something we have both witnessed in previous struggles for certain. Four draws and three wins would do me right now.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Feb 17, 2013 17:22:20 GMT
Christ, if you want a competition of who called it first, I predicted us to finish 16th in the summer and said the squad wasn't deep enough...
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 17, 2013 17:52:59 GMT
My point was it doesn't really matter who predicted what. We are where we are in the table and bickering over who was the first to predict we'd be rubbish isn't going to change anything
We've got 15 games left - are you really saying we won't win any of them?
4 wins and we'll be virtually safe. As soon as the new guy comes in , rearranges things and shouts at a few people, I think we'll pick up a few decent results which will get the confidence back, providing he's not a complete idiot. We've got the talent there - some people just need a boot up the arse. I think that would be enough to see us home for now. And if we can't get 13 points from the last 15 we deserve to go down
It reminds me of Villa last year in the Premier League - terrible second half of the season, playing really dull, defensive, systemic football with minimal creativity, but they had picked up enough points in the first half of the season to be safe, along with having a good striker who led the team forward. My only concern would be next season but that can wait for now...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 18:23:13 GMT
Quite right, JamesB. We are on a losing streak but then again so are other teams as well; York and Accrington are both suffering catastrophic form and while, we are obviously being beaten too often at least we are not getting thrashed. I don't think it's fair to describe the team as a shambles; the players know what they need to do but some of them are finding it hard and you can only play as well as the opposition will let you. Yesterday Rochdale surprised me, playing some very tidy football on a hard, bumpy pitch and using the ball well. They are clearly a side which has under-performed this season and should be higher up the table.
Some of Torquay's players are, it must be said, of limited ability, but the centre of defence remains sound and they will, I am sure, manage some clean sheets this season. Lee Mansell is getting it in the neck at the moment but he always seems to put in 100% effort. He looked to have picked up a nasty and painful knock at the end of the game at Spotland and I fear for the midfield should he be out for a game or two. To me, the biggest disappointment of the season has been Kevin Nicholson, who seems to overhit the vast majority of his passes into no man's land and who also looks less than solid when defending against nippy attackers.
Loyalgull deserves respect for travelling so far but there is no need to be quite so angry and cutting about the current bad run. We need a new manager for sure and we also need Ian Morris to come back into the side before the end of the season since he has qualities which, without wishing to be cruel, are lacked by Easton, Jarvis and Lathrope. Ryan Jarvis is an honest trier but he does not look like a matchwinner to me, whereas Elliot Benyon (and I hold my hands up to the fact that I have only seen him play for a quarter of an hour) does. At the risk of being accused of being a happy clapper I honestly believe that there is enough quality in the side, allied with some tactical nous from a new boss and hard work, for the side to finish well clear of the bottom two.
I watched Chesterfield relegated last season, and it is still vivid in my memory how much they looked like a doomed squad well before the season ended. There was a soft centre to the side which I just don't see in Torquay's team. On the other hand, Chesterfield's then manager is now at Home Park and I can imagine only too well what Argyle's home defeat yesterday would have been like for their fans. I am sure that Wimbledon, Plymouth and Accrington, to name three, will all finish below United this season, not that I am expecting a final position of 21st, mind, because I expect Aldershot and York, to name two, to be scrapping it out down there beneath us as well.
Keep your chins up, comrades!
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Feb 17, 2013 19:07:53 GMT
To me, the biggest disappointment of the season has been Kevin Nicholson, who seems to overhit the vast majority of his passes into no man's land and who also looks less than solid when defending against nippy attackers. I'm amazed he's lasted this long in the side when we have a ready-made replacement who has looked OK every time he's played. I can only assume it's because of his set-pieces, but then Craig's have been just as effective this season anyway The thing is (and Ling and Taylor wouldn't know this) last time Nicholson was dropped for an extended period, he came back into the side a much leaner, fitter, more effective player, because he had to work his arse off to get back into the side. I honestly think he's got complacent - and this is in part the manager's fault for refusing to rotate the side (or, if he's not convinced about the other options, it's his fault for signing players that aren't good enough) So many times we've lost this season and yet hardly any changes have been made. They say one of the signs of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Feb 17, 2013 20:12:59 GMT
James you've totally lost me who's bickering here? I still believe we will survive and its highly unlikely that we will do a Lincoln City isn't it?
We've got the talent? That ones debatable. Sure there's some talent in the squad but I sure as hell haven't seen much indication in any abundance. Too many "nice chaps" who work their nuts off for the team who would be fine alongside some real flair and creativity where thy can tackle hard and pass it sideways all day and everyone loves them for it. Put them in a side full of much the same and they all look decidedly poor to average. There's far more to being a successful side than just talent and Billy Bodin is a fine example of as hugely talented footballer, technically gifted but who has struggled to shine or show any sign in consistency of performance. We desperately need some larger than life characters to lift the and inspire what we do have. Chris your point about Ian Morris coming back into the side, I seem to remember that it took him at least a half dozen games to get up to speed and it would be unfair to expect him to be "the man to save the club" after a career threatening injury. The "we'll be alright there's far to much quality and talent in the squad to go down" attitude is a genuine recipe for failure and disaster. Seen it done it that got the tea shirt as the saying goes now more than ever we need honesty and a view looking in of things from someone who knows the game well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 11:56:03 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2013 16:49:28 GMT
That's Paul Bastard's bobble hat there in the corner of the picture. My first sighting of both Paul and the equally famous Squash'm.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Feb 18, 2013 23:10:52 GMT
the all-pervading presence of the co-operative movement (including its' former wine manager) What??? The Co-op don't do "management restructuring" do they? You'll be telling me they put horse meat in their frozen quarter pounders next!
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