Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2008 9:40:12 GMT
I must confess that one thing I really enjoy in life, is good debate. Its one of the reasons I love my job so much, leaving Newton Abbot early in the morning, I have BBC radio 2 on. S. Kennedy, starts my day, followed by the legend T. Wogan and then onto K.Bruce and his pop master quiz. The mastermind of pop, I never get many answers right, but feel good when I get one the contestant did not know.
Then comes the best show of the day for me, the J.Vine show, being mostly on the road, I get the chance to hear most of the show, this is important as then I get to hear all the views on each side on any debate.
Some debates will be what is in the headlines of the press, or the top news story making the first slot on all news reports, on TV or the radio. Others may be some real life story, that has some real human interest angle to it.
I have often changed my views on some things, due to the arguments that have been put up on the show, I also have been sad as some story moved me. Anger as well as some person on a phone in, seemed so heartless, or lacked any understanding about those caught up in the story.
So you will understand why I love forums, at this time we have debates on Poke V Bevan, should we play a weakened team in meaningless cups and so on, good debates where people are free to put their own view points across.As in all debate some views will be based on facts, while other views will just be someones own opinion.
What I find strange is how different fans views on a players performance during a game can often seem so far apart. Now the game itself and the events that take place , I can often understand. One fans states it was a stone wall penalty, the ball had crossed the line, the player was clearly off side and the goal should have been ruled out.
Now he who sits up high will tell you he is often in a better position sitting there, to see the game and events clearer. While I prefer to be close to the pitch, I always stand on the halfway line, so I can see both ends better from the middle.
We have all watched live games on TV, some ref gives a free kick, or books a player for what looked like a bad challenge. Only at half time to get to see the same incident from different camera angles, often then having to change our own views on what we and the ref thought we saw.
So fans posting their views on forums will differ as to what they think they saw, something that went on in the box at the away end where our fans were standing, would you think be better seen by the fans standing close by, than old Merse high up in the main stand and some distance away from the incident.
So how come the views on any players performance often differ so much. You take yesterdays game, one fan felt Sills was lazy, while others felt he had in fact worked hard. On here we have seen Dsane come under attack by some and yes even me once, only for others to completely disagree.
I know we will often disagree on many things on here, but surly a player worked hard or he did not and it should be plain for all to see? Maybe Merse can explain his felling on this and come up with a good reason or answer, it sure baffles me at times.
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Post by capitalgull on Nov 23, 2008 10:24:26 GMT
Would just like to point out that Merse was neither sat on high or far away from the action yesterday, since he was stood a couple of steps behind me, just far enough away to see over my rapidly balding head!
And we were just about on the halfway line as well.
I've only seen one poor 'report' on Sills over the two sites and plenty of positive stuff, as well as the comment I heard when Sillsy came over to give his wife a kiss after the game...'great shift Sillsy' I believe it was.
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 23, 2008 11:30:51 GMT
So how come the views on any players performance often differ so much. You take yesterdays game, one fan felt Sills was lazy, while others felt he had in fact worked hard. I know we will often disagree on many things on here, but surly a player worked hard or he did not and it should be plain for all to see? Maybe Merse can explain his felling on this and come up with a good reason or answer, it sure baffles me at times.  Maybe the critic feels Sills should run around like a headless chicken. That's not his role in the team, his role is to lead the line and if he's going to do that effectively then the rest of the team need to be fairly certain where he will take up position. This he does excellently especially when compared to previous "headless chickens" like the prolifically offside McPhee and .Connell who's lack of nous was appalling. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 23, 2008 11:34:44 GMT
Would just like to point out that Merse was neither sat on high or far away from the action yesterday, since he was stood a couple of steps behind me, just far enough away to see over my rapidly balding head! Good job for those "dimpsey" lights then Chas, the reflection off the bald pate of Lenin Ealinggull was bad enough!  |
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Post by daveshaw on Nov 23, 2008 14:07:10 GMT
Ah, but dave. No-one can see as clearly as the view from thailand. Looking in from afar is obviously an advantage for me, rather than the smoke and mirrorrs of torquay. Hmmm, maybe i should write a book of predictions nostradamus style.
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Post by David Graham's Eighth Pint on Nov 23, 2008 18:35:17 GMT
My ears are burning...  For those of you that don't know, it was me criticising Sills on the Woking match thread. The way you're writing in here is as if my name isn't next to the bloody post! Anyway, the word "criticising" may be a tad strong, I was merely pointing out his slightly below average performance yesterday. Reading through the match thread, it's like a playground with everyone seemingly ganging up on the one person that doesn't think Sills had a good game. If you re-read my match report, you'll see that I quite clearly say that Sills livened up in the second half. In the first half he was poor. Even the most tinted-bespectacled Gulls fan could have seen that. He missed two or three excellent chances which he really should have put away. In the second half, he did well to head across for Benyon's goal and it was a nice pass into DS for the equaliser. But it wasn't an eight-out-of-ten performance by a long way. The 5/10 I gave him may seem slightly harsh, but I think we all agree that a player that gets on with the game and plays okay usually gets 6. I thought he was below average so gave him a 5. Simple as that. Yes, the Woking players doubled-up on him and he was fouled a lot. I'm a 6'4" striker myself - at Sunday League level obviously - and I know what it's like to get the snot kicked out of you for 90 minutes. But you have to find other ways of getting into the game. Constantly getting fouled and moaning at the referee isn't finding other ways of getting into the game! Someone mentioned that Sills won a lot of headers. Firstly, I wouldn't say a "lot"; and secondly, how many of the balls he did win fall to a Torquay player? And I haven't enough fingers and toes for the amount of times Sills didn't even challenge for the ball. It was so frustrating to watch. Before you start accusing me - or should I say carry on accusing me? - of being some sort of traitorous demon, I want to make it clear that I am a huge fan of Tim Sills. He has been one of our better players this season and offers so much more to the team than just goals. Yesterday, however, he didn't perform well. To give him the same match rating as Benyon - who came on and changed the game - would be outrageous. That's my opinion though. If you think he did well then that's up to you and you're obviously entitled to your own. Merse, I know you're not very good at accepting people whose opinions differ to your own, so I'll take your comments with a pinch of salt mate. Someone on the other forum wrote: "Unfortunately Carayol had a shocker first half today, was very ineffective, looked nervous on the ball, and proved lightweight once again." Now I couldn't disagree with him more, but I'm glad the lad doesn't write for this forum, he'd have been hung, drawn and quartered... |
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Post by capitalgull on Nov 23, 2008 18:53:54 GMT
I happen to agree with the 'other poster's' thoughts regarding Carayol's first half though, and forums are all about opinions after all. Carayol was poor in the first half, the nadir coming when he mis-controlled an easy ball and let it go out for a throw whetn he had a clear run at Bunce, who bascially had him in his pocket apart from one cross that Sills headed over. Now it was a completely different matter in the second half when Carayol had the freedom of the left wing against Woking's own long throw specialist Konan. And apart from his goal, Stevens was fairly quiet against Bunce, who probably deserves a little credit himself. I've been accused of having a thin skin before on forums before but have got used to things I have posted being disagreed with. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone else all the time...what would the world be like if it was true!!  Just don't take it too personally DG8P. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2008 18:56:35 GMT
David Graham's Eighth Pint, sorry it seems that you have been ganged up on, over your post and remarks about Sills.
This thread was not aimed at you, it was to ask the question how and why we see different players work rate etc, in such different ways. I made the point that I had made remarks about Dsane on one thread, my views not shared by some.
It was your own view and it matters not if others agree mate, thats what having free speech is all about, don't take it to heart, you match reports and other posts are a joy to read.
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Post by David Graham's Eighth Pint on Nov 23, 2008 19:00:43 GMT
I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, I just couldn't think of a better way of wording it. Some of the response on the match thread was akin of childish bickering! Anyway, I just wanted to clear some stuff up. For the record, I thought Carayol was excellent the whole game. |
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Nov 23, 2008 19:02:20 GMT
I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, I just couldn't think of a better way of wording it. Some of the response on the match thread was akin of childish bickering! Anyway, I just wanted to clear some stuff up. For the record, I thought Carayol was excellent the whole game. I disagree!! And my Dad's bigger than your Dad!! p.s. I don't really disagree as I wasn't even there! Just wanted to get that line in! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2008 19:04:50 GMT
I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, I just couldn't think of a better way of wording it. Some of the response on the match thread was akin of childish bickering! Anyway, I just wanted to clear some stuff up. For the record, I thought Carayol was excellent the whole game. I disagree!! And my Dad's bigger than your Dad!! Jerry thats one line I was never able to use mate  |
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merse
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Post by merse on Nov 23, 2008 20:36:11 GMT
I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, I just couldn't think of a better way of wording it. Come on man, what sort of childish statement is that? The type I would expect of my seven year old that's what! I got the impression you were some sort of trainee journalist called "Denzil" or are am I wrong? Apologies if I am. The point you haven't addressed in your whingeing response to the all round derision of your original post is that you stated Sills was "lazy" and I for one will not accept that slur on him. Say he's slow, say he can't trap a bag of cement - say anything you like about your perception of his ability; but don't question the very obvious integrity of the man by calling him "lazy" or if you do take the flack that goes with the territory. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2008 21:20:58 GMT
The morning started off so well now I have to wonder, if this thread was a good idea after all,  I think I've started better ones |
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Nov 24, 2008 11:53:44 GMT
I didn't feel like I was being ganged up on, I just couldn't think of a better way of wording it. The point you haven't addressed in your whingeing response to the all round derision of your original post is that you stated Sills was "lazy" and I for one will not accept that slur on him. Say he's slow, say he can't trap a bag of cement - say anything you like about your perception of his ability; but don't question the very obvious integrity of the man by calling him "lazy" or if you do take the flack that goes with the territory. I take it that your opinion of Sill's integrity has changed since you yourself seemed to question his bottle and attitude with the comments below which were made after the Crawley game........ " The player who really worried me from Saturday is Sills. His body language belied a player who patently didn't want to take on a big ugly defender in Quinn, one who lacks any sort of pace whatsoever and did I detect a bit of the "sulker" in his demeanour?" To me, Sills body language and demeanour is poor at the moment; he didn't exactly go the extra mile to put himself about" So in conclusion.........would it be fair to say that, in your opinion, Sills has lacked bottle in certain situations and has displayed a potential tendancy to sulk and not go the extra mile? Just don't call him lazy cos that is a slur too far!.................or alternatively are you describing Sill's body language and demeanour as separate from Sills the player?? Maybe this was the type of chatter that Paul Buckle was talking about when he stated " some people can't wait to say something without thinking." and " You need a lot of things - quality, luck - and what you don't need is people making stupid comments" in the Non League Paper over the weekend. For what it is worth, I stuck up for Sills after your slur and would do so again with regard to any critisism of his performance on Saturday - in my opinion he is a player who can appear lazy, but is pretty vital to the success of the side - iagain, n my opinion he does not go missing when a big ugly centre back comes onto the scene.......and there are normally two of them. The thing I would be most interested in now is a Benyon / Sills partnership being given a go. I think Elliott is coming on leaps and bounds this year. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Nov 24, 2008 13:57:31 GMT
Opinions are opinions and we all have different ones. One thing that does annoy me sometimes is when players are labelled lazy.
It amazes me that people throw that accusation at Sills.
I wonder if people get that idea because Sills is an intelligent player who does not waste energy chasing lost causes. Some would like to see honest but brainless endeavour - like a dog chasing his tail.
The other player accused of laziness to my amazement last season was Zebroski. I would go to see games where he chased down every ball, threw himself into every challenge and covered miles tracking back and pushing up, only for me to come home to see keyboard managers claiming that Zebroski should be dropped because he was lazy!
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