Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 18, 2009 18:56:50 GMT
Merse defenders need to defend first and Ellis does that in my book, he is young and still has much to learn and he does have a brain and anyway is that not what we employ coaches for at football clubs? to get players to improve the weaker side of their game?
One thing you may not know, he is very vocal out on the pitch and for me thats what I want to see from players, Wroe looks too frightened to even brake out with a smile, let alone open his mouth and show the passion Ellis shows.
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merse
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Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Oct 18, 2009 19:26:00 GMT
Merse defenders need to defend first and Ellis does that in my book, he is young and still has much to learn and he does have a brain and anyway is that not what we employ coaches for at football clubs? to get players to improve the weaker side of their game?  I agree with you on all points relating to Ellis, Dave. The point is though that poor quality distribution only results in renewed and rapid pressure being heaped back on the defence as the ball comes winging back in again. Yes that is what we employ coaches to do and one hopes that Mark Ellis is one of the first players that Stuart Gibson finds time to work with, and then young Benyon on his appalling inability to hold the ball up. On such things do seasons turn and a more measured distribution out of defence might see the maximising of the potential of Nicky Wroe for one. |
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Post by chrish on Oct 18, 2009 20:21:06 GMT
Merse defenders need to defend first and Ellis does that in my book, he is young and still has much to learn and he does have a brain and anyway is that not what we employ coaches for at football clubs? to get players to improve the weaker side of their game? I agree with you on all points relating to Ellis, Dave. The point is though that poor quality distribution only results in renewed and rapid pressure being heaped back on the defence as the ball comes winging back in again. Yes that is what we employ coaches to do and one hopes that Mark Ellis is one of the first players that Stuart Gibson finds time to work with, and then young Benyon on his appalling inability to hold the ball up. On such things do seasons turn and a more measured distribution out of defence might see the maximising of the potential of Nicky Wroe for one. Sometimes though Mr Wroe has to exert his influence on the centre halves and pro-actively go and nick the ball off them just like Alex Russell used to do before Steve Woods blasted another one into row Z. Distribution is as key from the back four as it is from the goalkeeper. Ellis is a stopper. To be fair to him he did pick the ball up at Notts County and picked out somebody on the left wing with a lovely ball. Perhaps the skill is there, perhaps he's just a lower league young centre half who feels as though he needs to get the basics right before he starts getting fancy in distributing the ball from the back. |
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Post by stuartB on Oct 18, 2009 22:17:40 GMT
Why did Wroe have odd boots on? anybody else spot that he had a white boot on his left foot and a black boot on his right?
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Post by Budleigh on Oct 18, 2009 22:25:38 GMT
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Post by aussie on Oct 19, 2009 8:28:41 GMT
Why did Wroe have odd boots on? anybody else spot that he had a white boot on his left foot and a black boot on his right? So everyone could tell it was him who kept passing the ball to their midfield in our half, next he`ll be putting their strikers through on goal, some times he really does my head in and then other times he can play wonderfully, I`d drop him till he sorts him self out and can focus for 90 minutes! |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 19, 2009 11:34:51 GMT
 Sorry for the sizing but this is the big bugger who marked Benyon out of the game. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Oct 19, 2009 11:55:25 GMT
Another game where expectancy was raised just a little, and another failure to capitalise. But I wouldn’t put ‘pressure’ as the primary cause of this result.
Bucks ‘logic’ really baffles me sometimes. We’ve struggled all season for confidence, consistency and most importantly results. And just as we manage to string a couple of performances together, and had built something of a platform to build on, he decides to take us back to square one again, by trying something different?
I don’t understand the suggestion 3-5-2 isn’t attacking enough. The second half at County proved if the wing-backs push on, it can be a very progressive formation. And it seems to work. So why change it?
On Saturday, Rendell was anonymous, in a role he seemingly didn’t understand. Benyon was not operating in the areas where he’s dangerous either. And that’s just the offensive issues. The space afforded to their wingers was just ridiculous and we looked like conceding every time Morecombe had the ball in our half.
So Bucks rightly changed it in the second half – unfortunately with the most bizarre set of alterations. Carlisle was playing left-wing, to help Nicho, which was great. But what about Manse? We had a left-winger, and 3 centre-midfielders, and sure enough within minutes they’d exploited the gaping whole down our right flank and we were 2-1 down.
Only when Stevens came on, and we reverted to a proper 4-4-2 (with two wide-men!) did the balance look right, and we were able to take control. Best part of 60 minutes wasted in a game we needed to win.
In the end, we should have won the game. We probably would have done but for the unnecessary fiddling before KO.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 19, 2009 12:03:52 GMT
Thought the two Morecambe wing backs played well.
Quote today from Mr B on Mr N
"I'm not having a go at him, but we were getting undone with Kevin (Nicholson) on one-on-ones and we knew that Wayne (Carlisle) would give us some help there".
Nico (IMO) hasn't the ability to play as wing-back or attacking full back. I think you can count on my hand the amount of players he's beaten one-on-one this season.
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jerry
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Posts: 165
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Post by jerry on Oct 19, 2009 12:14:08 GMT
His strengths aren't beating players though Chelston. He needs to be in the side for his ability to provide ammunition with crosses and dead balls. You don't see Beckham going past his man very often either do you?
Unfortunately, his lack of pace means that we have to protect him from being isolated against a quick winger. Either with the 3-5-2 formation or with a wide player who can track back in the way Carlisle manages on the other side.
It's surely no coincidence that Nichos best season for us came when he had the protection of Zebroski in front of him?
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Fonda
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Talking absolute football...
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Post by Fonda on Oct 19, 2009 12:44:27 GMT
Thought the two Morecambe wing backs played well. Quote today from Mr B on Mr N " I'm not having a go at him, but we were getting undone with Kevin (Nicholson) on one-on-ones and we knew that Wayne (Carlisle) would give us some help there". Nico (IMO) hasn't the ability to play as wing-back or attacking full back. I think you can count on my hand the amount of players he's beaten one-on-one this season. Surely Bucks is as aware of Nicho's short-comings as the rest of us are? To expose him in the manner he did with a 4-3-3 formation, and then criticise him afterwards seems somewhat unfair. |
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Oct 19, 2009 12:55:20 GMT
Me, I'm just pondering whether Nico's strengths are now overshadowed by his weakness's?
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Post by phipsy on Oct 19, 2009 15:28:17 GMT
definatley not, he is our main attacking force and has been for two seasons.
any full back is vulnerable when faced with one on ones and frequently 2 on 1s as he was on saturday.
it was a different story in the second half when wayne carlisle gave him much needed support.
"nico" is one of our very few players with "class".
as for his much discussed lack of pace, well if he had that extra yard , he wuld not be playing at this level, he would minimum championship.
wait until he is not playing and see how much he is missed.
someone recently had the ludicrous suggestion of playing greavies in nicos position., caw unbelievable!
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paj
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Post by paj on Oct 19, 2009 15:50:50 GMT
It's clear to most of us that the 4-3-3 on Saturday was not working against the 3-5-2, the Morcambe no 18 (Duffy) was often in miles of space on the right side, Nicho was exposed by the manager and the tactics and i was dissapointed it took to half time to change it, i would still keep Nicho in the team without doubt, remember the start of last season when Hodgy had a spell at left back? the last left footed player to play on the left side of midfield was Hilly, at least the left back is left footed! The thing we need to do is start defending from the front.
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Post by jmgull on Oct 19, 2009 15:56:37 GMT
Another game where expectancy was raised just a little, and another failure to capitalise. But I wouldn’t put ‘pressure’ as the primary cause of this result. Bucks ‘logic’ really baffles me sometimes. We’ve struggled all season for confidence, consistency and most importantly results. And just as we manage to string a couple of performances together, and had built something of a platform to build on, he decides to take us back to square one again, by trying something different? I don’t understand the suggestion 3-5-2 isn’t attacking enough. The second half at County proved if the wing-backs push on, it can be a very progressive formation. And it seems to work. So why change it? On Saturday, Rendell was anonymous, in a role he seemingly didn’t understand. Benyon was not operating in the areas where he’s dangerous either. And that’s just the offensive issues. The space afforded to their wingers was just ridiculous and we looked like conceding every time Morecombe had the ball in our half. So Bucks rightly changed it in the second half – unfortunately with the most bizarre set of alterations. Carlisle was playing left-wing, to help Nicho, which was great. But what about Manse? We had a left-winger, and 3 centre-midfielders, and sure enough within minutes they’d exploited the gaping whole down our right flank and we were 2-1 down. Only when Stevens came on, and we reverted to a proper 4-4-2 (with two wide-men!) did the balance look right, and we were able to take control. Best part of 60 minutes wasted in a game we needed to win. In the end, we should have won the game. We probably would have done but for the unnecessary fiddling before KO. Buckle obviously wasn't going to play 3-5-2 at home Fonda, in essence its a defensive formation........and one that would have had the usual buckle beefers up in arms. ........the main reason we didn't win on Saturday was not down to the tactics or the system, it was the fact that individually and as a team we didn't PLAY very well, we lost battles all over the pitch......this in my humble opinion, is how the vast majority of games especially at this level are won and lost. Our defenders stood off their attackers allowing them room to do what ever they pleased, our midfield weren't awful but failed to gain any kind of superioty.........and our forwards (apart from Sills who won more than his share) were, what they are........not good enough for Lge football, not dangerous and not a threat. You can argue that we looked more dangerous in the second half when we bought on Carlisle and Stevens, yes we did, however Morecambe created far more chances in the second 45 minutes........so you could argue that the second half system was no better than the first half one. It does my head in when people blame a result or a performance on just the managers supposed tactical inabilty........3-5-2, 4-4-2, 5-3-2, 5-4-1 or 9-0-1 or whatever, you can have the best system in the flippin' world but it wont win you football matches.........this is just a myth that keeps old pro's in work as tv pundits and sells millions on champ manager games........... they are won with heart, determination, hard graft, the confidence to display ones skill and very occasionally the run of the ball. Most of our players didn't show enough of the above on Saturday and haven't shown enough this season........this is why the manager has finally lost patience with them and replacements are being sought as we speak. To suggest otherwise is (as Chris so beautifully told Frobisher) compete and utter bollox..... |
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